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About to tackle first timing belt replacement


dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028758 posted 10/25/11 03:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Edit: Here are some useful links. I asked alot of questions that were answered in the VFAQ in the first link. It's definitely worth reading several times before getting started and making sure you do all the steps completely and in order.

I just replaced the belt and tensioner because they were only 10k miles old. If you're doing this at higher mileage you'll also want to replace multiple pulleys, the water pump, and the accessory belts.

Also, my car has the balance shafts removed. If that isn't done there are additional steps that are described in the vfaq but aren't covered here.

Good walkthrough on the timing belt change - click
Timing belt tips - click
Alternator info - click
Power steering - click
Tensioner info - click
Tensioner tool and Cam timing tool from a forum member (DIY tensioner tool shown later in this thread) - click
Torque specs and lots more are in this doc located in the GVR4.org Library - click

---

Yesterday I discovered that the last joker to pull the oil pan screwed up the location of one of the small bolts and left me with the mess in the pic below. I'm reasonably mechanically inclined but have never done a timing belt before. I'm about to tear into this one, any tips or gotchas you guys can share?

I've read through the vfaq several times and it seems reasonably straightforward. The balance shafts have been removed already and the belt was replaced within the last 10k, so the WP, pulleys, etc should be good.

I'll probably post some questions along the way to make sure I don't screw things up. Any help would be VERY much appreciated.



Edited by dammitjim (11/03/11 03:47 PM)

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omertaitalia
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028773 posted 10/25/11 04:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i have the same sitaution, mine is only scraped up on the edge though and not that deep in the belt, also really have no idea how to do a timing belt job, hopefully your thread helps.



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EgonOlsen
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028778 posted 10/25/11 04:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
watching, this is also 1 of my "need to learn" things



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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028783 posted 10/25/11 04:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I can try to commentate as I go through the job for the spectators

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ercp98
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028786 posted 10/25/11 04:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
just a suggestion, have the crank bolt loosened at a shop first before you take things apart. it will be alot easier. avoid going through what i went through. good luck.

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Barnes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028791 posted 10/25/11 04:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I highly recommend against what ercp98 recommends. It is possible that driving from the shop after you get the bolt broken loose, it will come completely loose causing a huge failur of components.

There are various tricks to getting it off. Not my favorite, but it worked when I helped Galactica is to put the car in 5th gear and have someone step on the brakes.

Better options are using an impact gun, or a large breaker bar and doing the starter trick.



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Jesh
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028793 posted 10/25/11 04:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^^ He shouldn't need to take off the crank bolt, Just the 4 10mm bolts holding the harmonic damper to the crank. Unless of course he is doing a little more than just the timing belt. To the OP, sounds like you did your homework on this project, my only advice would be to turn the engine over a few times by hand after you set the new timing belt, just to make sure your valves don't go the way of old yeller.



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dsm10o0
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028795 posted 10/25/11 05:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
+1 ^

No need to remove the crank bolt since it already has an eliminated balance shaft. Only do so when you change the bs belt. Just take off the 4 12mm that's holding the pulley.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028803 posted 10/25/11 05:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have derped again.



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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028805 posted 10/25/11 05:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
NO worries guys, this is good discussion. I was pretty sure that I didn't need to remove the pulley and that's something I wanted to confirm.

I'm at the ac tension now. My ac doesn't work and I don't plan to fixit anytime soon. Can I leave off the ac belt and tensioner?



Edited by dammitjim (10/25/11 05:45 PM)

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028809 posted 10/25/11 05:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry about the typos I'm posting with my phone from the garage.

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boostedinaz
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028810 posted 10/25/11 05:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you don't want the AC you can ditch the tensioner and belt.



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Jason G.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028811 posted 10/25/11 05:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, you can yank all that out if you want.

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028820 posted 10/25/11 06:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Look like the crank pulley is cOntacting the lower cover. Incorrect bolt order on the cover? Something else?

Edit- the cover bolt to the immediate upper right of the crank pulley is missing. Could that do it?



Edited by dammitjim (10/25/11 06:05 PM)

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028831 posted 10/25/11 06:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Found a cover bolt in this hole that is different from the rest



Edited by dammitjim (10/25/11 06:13 PM)

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028843 posted 10/25/11 06:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Timing belt cover with bolts as they came out of my car. Two are different than the rest. One was missing. Almost lost one of those metal carriers in the cover

What would cause the grooves in the cover by the crank pulley?



Edit - Most of my bolts were the same, but there should be several different sizes:

92-94 DSM according to the vfaq. I'm not sure if this translates to GVR4s or not.



Thread diameter
thread length
mm (in.)
A: 6 x 16 (.24 x .63)
B: 6 x 18 (.24 x .70)
C: 6 x 25 (.24 x .98)
D: 6 x 28 (.24 x 1.10)


Edited by dammitjim (10/26/11 01:48 AM)

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028849 posted 10/25/11 06:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can see here where this oil pan bolt can contact the belt if the belt deflects. It's a small bolt but it's still very close to the belt. I'm considering adding a second washer to it.

Edit - I ground that bolt down so it is close to flush with the case. That bolt is the devil.



Edited by dammitjim (10/26/11 01:54 AM)

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gramkrakr89
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028856 posted 10/25/11 06:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^this is a very good thing for every one here to know

- i hope nobody else has the misfortune of discovering this, but you are definitely taking the right approach in solving the problem immediately...

Just helped with a friend's timing belt a few weeks ago, make sure everything is aligned tooth for tooth and it's a simple job, i assume you know about the tensioner

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028859 posted 10/25/11 07:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've read about the tensioner. I don't have the right tool, but some posts said it could be taken off. I was going to go that route, but had some questions there. Do I just unbolt the tensioner while the belt is under tension? I could use more info here.

Right now I'm at the first spot where I'm really not sure if I've got things right, TDC. I turned the crank and lined up the camshafts and now it's how it looks below. It looks like the oil pump is lined up. I'm not sure how to tell if the crankshaft is lined up.

The vfaq talks about the balance shafts being in phase, but I don't need to worry about that, right?







Edited by dammitjim (10/25/11 07:06 PM)

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gramkrakr89
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028864 posted 10/25/11 07:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
you're right on... see \/ \/



the arrow on the pump assembly points to the notch in the pulley shield. to make sure the balance shaft attached to the oil pump secondary gear is aligned properly, there's an inspection plug (14mm) in the back of the block that you should be able to stick a screwdriver all the way into to make sure it's aligned properly

and i think that if you're running no balance shafts (i see now that you've removed them), the alignment of the oil pump gear does not matter... ? (someone confirm please) it is good practice to line it up anyway.

if you're slick, you can remove the tensioner without compressing it. (I've never removed it with the belt under tension, though... remove belt first if possible)Inspect this very carefully to ensure it is not damaged before re-installation - most purists believe you should get a new one of these with every timing belt job, but idk

You can then use a C-clamp or press to SLOWLY compress the rod, and stick a retaining pin through the holes to keep it (straightening out the handle of one of those big-ass black paper clamps works nicely)

all this a'coming from someone who has only done this twice and both times were under adverse circumstances, so the more experienced members should chime in, please

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028876 posted 10/25/11 07:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nice, I got lucky and they lined up at the first pass. I picked up a gates belt locally, with a little more luck I might have the belt on yet tonight.

How important is the lower cover gasket? Mine is there but pretty stiff and I dont have a way to get one tonight.

Can anyone confirm the tensioner removal procedure?

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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028931 posted 10/25/11 09:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I screwed up and released the tensioner pulley before putting a screw in that hole to meet up with the tensioner. I'd this a big deal? Should I keep going by screwing in the tensioner to set the pin?

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fuel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028953 posted 10/25/11 09:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
First up I must say I'm impressed how you are tackling the issue and posting up images along the way.

I've found 99% of the time the lower cover has rub marks, it just seems that old age deforms the plastic enough to cause rubbage - either that or previous attempts at replacing belts/doing work on the side of the engine have not been as careful as they should have been putting that cover back on. I note there is a philips head screw in one of the bolt holes by the water pump - it should have a regular 10mm head bolt like the rest of the shorter bolts.

Lower cover gasket isn't all that important, especially now that the cover at that age wont be straight and true and seal correctly anyhow.

To remove the tensioner I would attempt to put a pin through to lock it if the hole in the tensioner rod happens to line up with the rest of the tensioner body - if it is only ever so slightly out I often find rotating the engine a few turns is enough to push it back in perhaps 1 or 2mm. Once the tensioner is locked then undo the 14mm locking bolt on the tensioner and pull the belt off. I often remove the two 12mm bolts on the tensioner and remove it entirely before taking the belt off so it isn't so tight.

If you haven't been able to lock your tensioner with the pin (ie rod is too far out) and you have access to a shop vice then just pull the tensioner off and put it in the vice between blocks of wood and close it up enough to put a pin in it. Otherwise you can use a long threaded bolt (can't remember the pitch, but it's the same as the alternator tensioner adjustment long bolt) and thread it into a hole of the timing over above the air con condenser as shown here




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pauleyman
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028971 posted 10/25/11 10:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Easier to just pull the tensioner off, compress it and put a pin in it. You can do it on the car as you suggest but it's hard to see. You didn't screw up, you're just a little out of order and/or you've added a step assuming you aren't replacing the tensioner.



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dammitjim
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028973 posted 10/25/11 10:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Thanks for the input. I tried that alternator bolt and it is so close but not quite for getting those holes to line up. I guess I will pull the tensioner.

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