Hi, just want to know. The 4g63 engine on the galants non turbo are the same as the turbo?? wich components change i know thw pistons are , but anithing else?? and if it has an automatic tranny does this make difference too?? let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
The Top Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Resource
Join the best E39A 1991-1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 community and document your GVR4 journey.
- Software Upgraded - Reset Your Password to Login
In order to log in after the forum software change, you need to reset your password. If you don't have access to the email address you used to register your GVR4.org account, you won't be able to reset your password. In that case, follow the instructions here to regain access to the forum.
91GSR
Well-known member
the oil pan is different too. im not sure about oil squirters and what cars they were on but the NA doesnt have them. the pistons are different, and the auto tranny thing i have no idea.
fivestardsm
Well-known member
Quoting autotek:
Hi, just want to know. The 4g63 engine on the galants non turbo are the same as the turbo?? wich components change i know thw pistons are , but anithing else?? and if it has an automatic tranny does this make difference too?? let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
There are a few differences between the 2, first off I am assuming that you are just refering to the motor itself. As for the block, It and the pistons are different. The turbo block has piston squirters in it to cool the pistons from the extra heat that is built up from the added pressue of the turbo. And the pistons them self have a different top on them for the different compression ratio's that they run. The turbo engine runs a lower compression ratio for the increase in pressure from the Induction of air by the turbo.
With the rest of the long block there are small differences. The water coolant pipes, the oil pans, the intakes,the injectors and the fuel press reg, the front and rear motor mounts,and the cams are different between the turbo and non. As for the cams, there is such a small difference, that you can interchange them between stock motors.
As for the automatic trans model, depending on the vin # and the year, there are two different horse powers for the Non turbo engine. I don't remeber these off the top of my head tho. As for any other differences, on the flywheel end of the crank, there is a bushing right in the end of the crank that the torque converter pin rides in for alignment. this has to be removed if you are going to swap the motor from an auto to a manual. Also you need to source the small aligment dowl that lines up the flywheel.
The starter plate that is bolted to the back of the block behind the flywheel is different on some of the auto models comapred to the manual ones. You need to match these up aswell when doing a swap or conversion. I have also fond a few auto models have a different cone on the starter's too.
Im sure there are other things, but this is all that I could think of at the moment.
Hi, just want to know. The 4g63 engine on the galants non turbo are the same as the turbo?? wich components change i know thw pistons are , but anithing else?? and if it has an automatic tranny does this make difference too?? let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
There are a few differences between the 2, first off I am assuming that you are just refering to the motor itself. As for the block, It and the pistons are different. The turbo block has piston squirters in it to cool the pistons from the extra heat that is built up from the added pressue of the turbo. And the pistons them self have a different top on them for the different compression ratio's that they run. The turbo engine runs a lower compression ratio for the increase in pressure from the Induction of air by the turbo.
With the rest of the long block there are small differences. The water coolant pipes, the oil pans, the intakes,the injectors and the fuel press reg, the front and rear motor mounts,and the cams are different between the turbo and non. As for the cams, there is such a small difference, that you can interchange them between stock motors.
As for the automatic trans model, depending on the vin # and the year, there are two different horse powers for the Non turbo engine. I don't remeber these off the top of my head tho. As for any other differences, on the flywheel end of the crank, there is a bushing right in the end of the crank that the torque converter pin rides in for alignment. this has to be removed if you are going to swap the motor from an auto to a manual. Also you need to source the small aligment dowl that lines up the flywheel.
The starter plate that is bolted to the back of the block behind the flywheel is different on some of the auto models comapred to the manual ones. You need to match these up aswell when doing a swap or conversion. I have also fond a few auto models have a different cone on the starter's too.
Im sure there are other things, but this is all that I could think of at the moment.
Last edited:
NARF
Well-known member
There isnt a knock sensor either. There is a place to put one though.
They are the SAME BLOCK.
The T version has been machined for the oil squirters.
The N/A block has the indentations for the squirters,
They both run the same balance shafts/ water pumps/ front oil covers/CAS/ lash adjusters/rockers
Pistons in the turbo model are low compression
Pistons in the N/A are high compression, and shouldnt be used for a turbo application
The T version has been machined for the oil squirters.
The N/A block has the indentations for the squirters,
They both run the same balance shafts/ water pumps/ front oil covers/CAS/ lash adjusters/rockers
Pistons in the turbo model are low compression
Pistons in the N/A are high compression, and shouldnt be used for a turbo application
Connecting rods are same for both motors as well.
And the only difference in the oil pans is the turbo pan has a provision for the oil return line from the turbo. Otherwise they're the same and a bulkhead fitting can easily be installed in a non-turbo pan for an oil return line.
*EDIT* Of course this goes for motors of the same year. Obviously a 91 turbo motor does not use the same rods and oil pan as a 93 N/T because one is a six bolt and the other is a 7 bolt.
And the only difference in the oil pans is the turbo pan has a provision for the oil return line from the turbo. Otherwise they're the same and a bulkhead fitting can easily be installed in a non-turbo pan for an oil return line.
*EDIT* Of course this goes for motors of the same year. Obviously a 91 turbo motor does not use the same rods and oil pan as a 93 N/T because one is a six bolt and the other is a 7 bolt.
Last edited by a moderator:
cspetros
Well-known member
All N/T 4g63 engines from 1992 on have the knock sensor. This can be verified in the service manual. My '92 G-GS has one.
Last edited:
Do you mean you actually have the sensor installed and connected to the ECU, or just the provision in the block?
dmj
Well-known member
Right now I have a N/A block with the turbo pistons and rods it runs great with boost.
donniekak
Well-known member
I wouldn't call 9:1 high compression. If you have full timing control they could work ok. The big problem is that gvr4's and 1g dsm's have agressive timing curves. Combine this with a higher compression piston with shallower ringlands and you have problems. People run 10-12 psi on 10:1 engines all the time, it's all in the tune. If you can avoid detonation you would be ok. How many aftermarket pistons are 9:1?
cspetros
Well-known member
Quote:
dsm_drew
Do you mean you actually have the sensor installed and connected to the ECU, or just the provision in the block?
I mean that the sensor is installed and connected to the ECU. The fuel system circuit diagrams also reference it: < 92 N/T Fuel Circuits
dsm_drew
Do you mean you actually have the sensor installed and connected to the ECU, or just the provision in the block?
I mean that the sensor is installed and connected to the ECU. The fuel system circuit diagrams also reference it: < 92 N/T Fuel Circuits
That's interesting, cause it means the ECU must also have the knock board, and if its EPROM it could be used in a turbo car. I was under the impression that none of the N/T ECU's had knock boards.
91GSR
Well-known member
when sam and i were replacing my clutch he noticed a lot of stuff is the same from the exterior. the only things ive ever heard of being different was the pistons and squirters. interesting that a NA engine has a knock sensor. is knocking a problem for a NA engine?
The only USDM 1G NT board I have ever seen with a knock board is the MD172575, like this one from a 1992 or 93 Galant NT:
EPROM NT ECU with knock board
There may be a few other variants, but I believe they were exclsively used on 1992 or 1993 Galants, never on any DSMs.
However, many of the European spec NT 1G DSM's were outfitted with a knock sensor and ECU, probably due to the varying octane available.
Quoting dsm_drew:
That's interesting, cause it means the ECU must also have the knock board, and if its EPROM it could be used in a turbo car. I was under the impression that none of the N/T ECU's had knock boards.
EPROM NT ECU with knock board
There may be a few other variants, but I believe they were exclsively used on 1992 or 1993 Galants, never on any DSMs.
However, many of the European spec NT 1G DSM's were outfitted with a knock sensor and ECU, probably due to the varying octane available.
Quoting dsm_drew:
That's interesting, cause it means the ECU must also have the knock board, and if its EPROM it could be used in a turbo car. I was under the impression that none of the N/T ECU's had knock boards.
solidviper89
Well-known member
Are the cranks the same?
cspetros
Well-known member
Quoting keydiver:
The only USDM 1G NT board I have ever seen with a knock board is the MD172575, like this one from a 1992 or 93 Galant NT:
EPROM NT ECU with knock board
There may be a few other variants, but I believe they were exclsively used on 1992 or 1993 Galants, never on any DSMs.
However, many of the European spec NT 1G DSM's were outfitted with a knock sensor and ECU, probably due to the varying octane available.
According to that page, the N/T EPROM ECU has a "7380E" code on it, and a E442 chip.
Mine (MD172575, below) has the code "7380M" on it, and does not include a chip, but does include the knock board. Having a knock board doesn't imply that it's an EPROM ECU, at least for this series of ECUs. So, definitely unusable for turbo apps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
Terry Posten has it^^ currently, replacing the original caps.
The only USDM 1G NT board I have ever seen with a knock board is the MD172575, like this one from a 1992 or 93 Galant NT:
EPROM NT ECU with knock board
There may be a few other variants, but I believe they were exclsively used on 1992 or 1993 Galants, never on any DSMs.
However, many of the European spec NT 1G DSM's were outfitted with a knock sensor and ECU, probably due to the varying octane available.
According to that page, the N/T EPROM ECU has a "7380E" code on it, and a E442 chip.
Mine (MD172575, below) has the code "7380M" on it, and does not include a chip, but does include the knock board. Having a knock board doesn't imply that it's an EPROM ECU, at least for this series of ECUs. So, definitely unusable for turbo apps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
Terry Posten has it^^ currently, replacing the original caps.
Last edited:
cspetros
Well-known member
Quoting solidviper89:
Are the cranks the same?
The cranks are the same. Here is another thread on all of this non-turbo/turbo ramblage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif:
N/T v/ Turbo
Are the cranks the same?
The cranks are the same. Here is another thread on all of this non-turbo/turbo ramblage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif:
N/T v/ Turbo
Quoting cspetros:
Having a knock board doesn't imply that it's an EPROM ECU, at least for this series of ECUs. So, definitely unusable for turbo apps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
I didn't mean to imply that knock board = EPROM, I do know better than that. But if it had a knock board and an EPROM it would be a great find.
Having a knock board doesn't imply that it's an EPROM ECU, at least for this series of ECUs. So, definitely unusable for turbo apps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
I didn't mean to imply that knock board = EPROM, I do know better than that. But if it had a knock board and an EPROM it would be a great find.
I actually have an "E" version of that board here, but its rather badly damaged. Some are and some aren't.
