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Re: help doing engine swap in my '92 eagle 2000 GTX ('92 Galant)


Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812311 posted 07/19/09 01:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
thanks for all the info.
i printed off all thos pages, so ill be able to follow it step by step now.
and ill be able to get the belts put on right this time. and ill change the ballance shaft belt too, now that i have the instructions. this would have been helpful when i had the engine out originaly, but ill manage.


you guys think i can do this all by the end of the week?
i sure hope i can. im surprising even myself at what ive accomplished so far.
this is the first time in my life that ive ever done anything like this.
its kinda overwhelming, but ive just got to take it one step at a time, and one thing after another.

i will do this. my car will be purring, with ALL new belts tight, and WITH the tach working.
which btw, i still havnt found the wire you were talking about.
maybe if you have a few pics or something... im a very visual person, and the diagram can only give me so much.

thanks. you're a great help.

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812404 posted 07/19/09 01:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I went out and looked at my '90 G-GSX's harness. This connector (the B-06 one) has some sort of barrel looking thing (a capacitor maybe?) at the end of it; the wire is white/black. It sort of just dead ends . I'm not sure what it's for. But, I doubt that this is your problem, since it doesn't disconnect from the entire harness necessarily. Here is a pic of it (that's a closeup, BTW. The barrel thing is thumb width):


Another thing to check, just to be sure: there are 3 connectors up under the dash on the passenger side of the car (near the ECU) that are for the chassis electrical system. According to another diagram, the tachometer line originates at the power transistor, and runs directly through a connector called C-09 (see what I mean about contradictory?). Be sure that these three connectors pictured are indeed connected:



Edited by cspetros (07/19/09 03:32 PM)

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812562 posted 07/20/09 12:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
thanks for that info.

i think i may have found my main problem.

this is the connector from my old wiring harness.
it has 10 wires coming out of it.


this is the connector on my new harness.
it has 15 wires coming out of it.


this is the socket that they are supposed to plug into, and it runs wires directly to my dash.
it only has 10 prongs inside it.
therein lies my problem.


there is more information trying to get to my dash, and thru slightly different wires, but it cant get there because the dash doesnt even have enough wires to receive all the info.
oh, and sort of a side problem, the blowers for the in car heating, and cooling dont work.

oh and this is that little dead end thing you were talking about.
no idea what it is either. it not on the old harness...


oh, and any idea what this thing is? its right beside the wires for the MFI relay.
and also you can see a few wires in the background. they come down from the dash, and they dont plug into anything... not even on my old harness. there are three different connectors that come down from the dash wiring, and dont plug into anything.


i also found that my timing is off on the engine. very slightly, but enought that the engine is vibrating more than it should. im gonna work on that tomorrow. need to jack up the car again, and get at those belts, and make sure this time that the timing marks are set right this time. and ill change the ballance shaft belt while im at it.

so if im right about that wiring for the dash, do i have to get the dash wiring?
its not super important, but i will want to fix it eventualy.

anyways, thats the update for now.
thanks for the help.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812568 posted 07/20/09 12:42 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I will be sure to examine those connectors in the factory manual tomorrow. It's 1:30am here, and I'm sleepy .

For your timing belts, just follow those pages, and you will be just fine. If it's vibrating, you might have the lower balance shaft (the one driven by the big timing belt) out of phase by 180 degrees. In those pages, it will tell you a trick for determining if the timing mark is correct, or if you need to rotate the sprocket 1 revolution (the sprocket directly drives the main oil pump gear; the balance shaft is driven by the oil pump gear via a smaller gear). The trick will keep you from having to remove a bolt and stick a screwdriver into a hole in the engine block to test the position of the balance shaft.

Do you have a torque wrench?

You said that the engine runs. That's a big relief right there. The rest is just minor(+/-) stuff.

Good job. Back at you in the morning .

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812570 posted 07/20/09 12:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
lol, chris i beat you with the time. im in atlantic time.
im 1 hour ahead of you.
anyways, ttyt.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812572 posted 07/20/09 12:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
and no, i do not have a torque wrench. unfortunately.
i have to buy one...



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812590 posted 07/20/09 03:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Gotta love the sleepless nights...

One question: Did you have these connectors connected to begin with when you started the car? If no, that's ok. If you did, tell me.

So, the connector you're holding is the C-09 connector I spoke of earlier. It is a very important connector .

According to what you said earlier, and from the CAS wiring issue you had, the new wiring harness is from a 1990 DSM. For the moment, it doesn't matter if the DSM was turbo or not (I don't think it was. Correct?).

I looked at your pictures, and went over the wiring diagrams searching for all instances of the C-09 connector. The following spreadsheet details each wire in the C-09 connection. The 10 wires highlighted in GREEN represent the wires that your car supports. The new wiring harness has these 10 wires, and a few more wires that your car does not support. Those that are NOT supported are highlighted in YELLOW (If you're curious, RED represents wires not present on the harness or your car). Since the harness is from 1990, there are 3 wires that were later phased out (the '90 style cruise control was actuated instead of vacuum controlled):


All in all, if you just plug the two connectors together, it should work fine. Standard equipment positions didn't change between harnesses, that I know of. Double check the wire colors that I've posted against the ones in your car, just to be doubly sure.

The wires that your car doesn't support will not connect (they do not matter, 3 of them are not connected anywhere else on the harness, 1 of them is for ETACS type Wipers(your car doesn't have these), and 2 do not exist in your car (the ????? ones)).

Take some pictures of your instrument panel (gauges, etc) and post them up. Your car doesn't have Cruise (according to your engine bay pic)(a good thing, from the harness point of view); I'm not sure if the '90 wiring harness has the C-07-1 connector that handles the newer cruise control connection. Does your car have A/C? I can't see the A/C lines in any pics. Just wondering.

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812591 posted 07/20/09 03:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Furthermore, I believe that white/clear connector beside the MFI relay is the O2 sensor check connector. It's used for diagnostics; tuck it away and forget about it .

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812693 posted 07/20/09 11:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yes those connectors were connected when i started the car.

the harness was from a non turbo.

my car was a base, base model. no ac. standard, so no cruse control. my wipers work.
its just the tach that doesnt work.

ill post the pics tonight.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812695 posted 07/20/09 11:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey,

I guess a better question would be "Did the check engine light illuminate for 5 seconds and then go out when you started the car?". This would guarantee at least that the ECU was indicating to the gauge panel normally (we know it works cause the engine ran). If all those things on the list of pins (brake light, etc.) work, then that's good. We can just focus on the tach part.

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 812914 posted 07/20/09 11:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yes it did illuminate for 5 seconds.

and you said you wanted pics of the instrument panel?

here they are.



and my blower/heater fan is not working either.


ok, so today i got the car jacked up again, and got down to removing the timing belt cover.
ill be continuing tomorrow with removing the remaining timing belts.
boy, is it ever good to have the insturctions this time! lol



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813034 posted 07/21/09 11:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think I just figured out why your tach isn't working. I think the connection is working just fine. If the Check Engine light didn't come on and stay on, that means the ECU is getting a satisfactory tach signal (the ECU uses it (pulses) to determine if a cylinder doesn't fire).

Your new DOHC Ignition Power Transistor outputs GROUND (LOW) pulses for the tach signal. I believe your SOHC tach is looking for a HIGH signal. I'm basing this off of a post I read on here, and on the diagrams.

I saw that you posted a want ad for a 9000RPM tach/guage panel. Make sure it's from a newer model. If it's not too expensive, I suggest going with that. Adapting the tach signal (it can be done) to work with a tach that doesn't display an accurate reading might be more trouble than it's worth.

Beside the fact that the 9000rpm guage would read accurately, the speedometer goes up to 145MPH (230KPH). So if you ever go that fast, you'll know it .


Edited by cspetros (07/21/09 11:06 AM)

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813037 posted 07/21/09 11:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
cool, thanks!

btw, i just removed, and replaced the ballance shaft belt, and now im going to see what i have to do to get that crank bolt back on.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813102 posted 07/21/09 01:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey!! If you only have that one side off the ground, put the tranny in 5th gear, and tighten it that way. The other wheel has to be on the ground though, otherwise it will spin. Oh, and use a socket to tighten it, instead of the 1/2" drive hole; Using that hole can break the bolt.


Edited by cspetros (07/21/09 08:49 PM)

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813274 posted 07/21/09 08:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
About that blower fan... Did it work before when you used to drive the car? Or is it a recent issue?

The blower relay on these cars goes bad after a while. If yours hasn't been replaced, it's time for it to

Here's a post on where it is: Blower Relay

One way to test it is to kick up in there with your foot (taking care not to break anything) . Sometimes that will jolt the relay enough make it turn on.

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813360 posted 07/22/09 12:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yes the blower did work before, this just hapened after the swap, and the new harness.
btw, are there any wires that are supposed to plug into the blower motor? i couldnt find any socket...

yeah, putting the trany in 5th is a good idea. ill have to do that tomorrow, just to make shure its tight.

so the timing is now set correctly! and i believe my belt is tight enough, but then again, im not sure.
it runs smooth now, all i have to take care of is the idle.

oh, and i just want to know if this is normal... this thing right the here makes loud clicking type noises when the key is in the 'on' position, i dont hear it when the engine is running tho.
it sounds more like... you know when you have air in your water hose, an the water is like making bubbles or something in the hose...or better comparison, it sounds like when you kink the garden hose, and it lets air bubbles thru every once in a while. thats kinda what it sounds like. what is it?


heres a picture that better shows where its located. its right under the intake tube.


and i just thought of this... but the tach that im gonna have to get....needs to be canadian.
mph vs kph

if i have no other choice, ill take the american one... but i would prefer it in kilometers. lol

so tomorrow i plan to set the idle correctly, and if all goes well, get the car inspected on thursday.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813500 posted 07/22/09 01:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You should probably search for a tach in Canada, in that case. I think the European ones may also have kph too.

That thing making the clicking noise is the ISC (Idle Speed Control) Stepper motor. It regulates airflow when the engine is idling. On that ECU you bought, did the owner say that the Caps had been replaced? If not, that ECU might be a ticking bomb. You might want to pull it out and check it for leaks. Here is a thread about this: Replace your Caps. or your car may EXPLODE.

About the blower motor, there should be a connector coming down in the same area as the others (see pic). Check your old harness for the connector, also.




-->'92 Galant GS, Summit White/Kensington Grey 2-Tone
-->'99 Mazda Miata MX-5, Brilliant Black


Edited by cspetros (07/22/09 02:13 PM)

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813663 posted 07/22/09 11:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
thanks for the info, ill be sure to check it tomorrow.

btw, im bringing my car in for inspection tomorrow.
i hope everything passes...

i couldnt get my hands on a pair of aligator clips, and those are required to set the idle correctly. but id only be setting it by ear, since the tach is still messed up.
but it should be able to pass inspection without it... i hope.

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Woosky117
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 813728 posted 07/23/09 09:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FAIL!

my car didnt pass inspection.

turns out it was worse than i thought...
bumpers are rotten
the drum brakes are rotten
the break lines are rotten
control arms are rotten
and i just found out that the caps werent replaced on my ecu!

and if that wasnt enought there's still all the other crap that dont work!

im so discouraged right now... i already put $2000 into this thing.
i cant realy afford to put in any more..
what do i do?

and the mechanic told me that he doesnt think its worth it to fix the car at all!
now im realy upset about this. i was hoping do be driving this car this weekend... but we know that wont happen.

Life sucks when you got no money!

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 814019 posted 07/23/09 08:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Who is this mechanic? Be sure he isn't trying to pull one on you. Did he give you a list, and offer to do the repairs himself? I'm not sure what the inspection standards are where you live; they sound strict. I trust NOBODY but myself and a select few with my cars. How else can one be sure the job is done right? Being like that has forced me to learn how to do things myself.

Alright, aside from what I said on FB, here's what else I have to say/ask:

-->ECU Caps: This is a serious issue. Who sold that ECU to you? Did they tell you the caps had been replaced/not replaced? Anyhow, send a PM to Terry Posten about recapping it, unless you're brave enough to do it yourself. He has worked on the ECU's in both of my Galants . Here's his info page: Terry Posten; ECU Caps replacement. ALSO, your IDLE ISSUE may be due to this. A clickety ISC seems to reflect this in many cases.

-->Brake lines: relatively easy fix. On a 17+ year old cars, they deteriorate, especially if they're not in use. Napa carries them.

-->What exactly is wrong with the bumpers? I didn't know they went bad, unless they're rusted through or something.

-->Wheel cylinders (for the brakes?), brake drums: What's up with the one's on the car?

-->Brake discs/shoes: One of the easiest fixes on the car. Napa carries them.

-->Control Arm: Is it rusted through also? Read this post: Control Arm Rusted Out
---------------------------------------------------

Truthfully, how bad is the rust on the car? I'm talking about everywhere on the car, not just on the suspension areas. Intuition will tell you if something is too rusted to carry a load safely. You might consider posting up some pics, if they're easy to take (I personally hate taking pics with my cell phone). If not, just describe it.

I know the car has a certain element of sentimental value to you. But, it comes to a point. With that in mind, you need to find out if the rust is manageable. If it's eating into major structural parts, the frame may not be salvageable. I know you've done some replacement/welding on the car already.

At the end of the line, if it turns out that the frame is not salvageable, and if you're still into this project: you have a good engine and tranny, you might consider getting a Galant shell and transplanting your good stuff into it. I remember in the first post you ever made, you said that there were other 2000GTX's around where you live. Are there any junk yards/etc. up there also?

If it turns out that the frame is alright, I suggest hitting it with some Ospho (Ospho website) or something like that, immediately, and recoat it on the bottom (NateCrisman used something called POR15: Look at this thread. Also, look at this thread: Jepherz's thread about all of this. )

I hope some other members chime in about this. I've never dealt with major structural issues like this. Right now, the important thing is establishing how bad the rust issue is, and if it's containable.

Regarding the idle, how does it behave? And the check engine light... there are ways to read the code ( See this page). When everything else is settled, you might think about getting a Palm datalogger (they're extremely cheap, and they're one of the best tools you can have for diagnosing problems). But, that's a story for later...

We've all had these sorts of experiences. Just remember what I said earlier. Also, nowhere on this site will you read a post about how easy and effortless it is to resurrect one of these cars . I don't want to give you false hope, either . The project is in your hands. We're just here to help .

(BTW, I'm glad you replaced that balance shaft belt.)


Edited by cspetros (07/23/09 10:38 PM)

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Woosky117
Brake it Down


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 814074 posted 07/24/09 01:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
wow. it will take me all night to answer all those.

he was a trusted mechanic. and he gave me a list. he said he does some of that stuff, but literaly told me like 4 times that its not worth fixing. i was like i heard you the first 3 times. i felt like telling him where he can stuff his wrench.
here's the list. (boy... mechanics are almost as bad as doctors! the other side of the page was worse)


rear bumper is rotten
right front bumper is rotten
left front lower control arm - rotten
rear break lines - flex to wheel cylnder (x2)
front break lines - flex to flex (short)
rear drums
rear shoes
hold down kits
may need 2 wheel cylinders??
engine light is on
won't idle

and then there is all the rest that we already discussed.

the bumper? yeah, its rotten alright. i had even forgotten about this, because at the time it didnt seem imprtant.
there is nothing holding the bottom of the bumper to the frame except for that wire.


its a whole lot worse than i had thought.


the entire back end of that bumper bar is simply gone.... eaten by the worst enemy known to metal. rust.


i would have to sleeve that entire thing with new metal.
as for the front bumper, there was a spot that i missed, and didnt bother fixing, because i didnt think it was important.
but it is rusted thru.
as for the main body, it still seems fine. that undercoat that was applied 17 years ago realy did wonders.

not sure whats wrong with the brakes... they just look realy rusted.
i can still get full wheel lock and swing that end around on pavement. i dont even need to swing, i get wheel lock going straight too.
but thats with the handbreak. and it has always worked well. but it did lock up last winter, but only because it had been engaged for about a year and a bit at that point, and i fixed that the good old low-tech way. beat it with a hammer.

i didnt get a chance to check the control arm, but from what i remember, they deffinately didnt look the best.

my engine still has a certain bumpiness to it, so i know i probably screwed up somewhere with that timing.

the only real bad parts with the rust, are the places that werent protected by the undercoat, or the paint. the bumper bars seem the worst off tho.

btw, im going on vacation again, so i dont know how many chances ill have to check stuff out here, but you can bet ill try.
ill be going to Pugwash, in Nova Scotia. Campmeeting. lots of fun.
at will be week off work, and a week break from my car.

Chris, i told you it would take all night, and here it is 3:30AM just finishing up, and i still didnt answer all the questions. lol

i am so tired right now, and i still have to go pack.
and thanks again chris. you realy are an encouragement.
hit me up on fb whenever you have time.

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 814081 posted 07/24/09 02:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I take it that they use salt on the roads up there in the winter time?

Those bumpers look pretty sickly. On a brighter note, they are replaceable. The front and rear metal pieces pictured unbolt from the body. It would not be advantageous at all to re-sleeve them. What you'll find when you unbolt them, I'm not sure.

I'm going to do a double take and say that it may have been a good thing that he inspected the car like he did, especially on the brake components.

It's almost 3:30am here so I'll finish this up in the morning. Have a good vacation .

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Mark LaVallee
"Satan's" Wrenchman
581/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 814345 posted 07/24/09 06:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Something can LOOK bad, and not necessarily be bad. Something could BE bad and look ok. Needless to say, the rebars for the bumpers look terrible. So, I'd do something about replacing those with rust free units. Probably from one of the many part outs around here. The brake lines are no big deal, and could be fabbed by anyone familiar with rust work. Terry can do your computer, I'll bet that gets rid of your CEL and idling dilemma. Ohm out your IAC before you install the reman brain so you don't flame the drivers. As far as the brake drums, hardware kits and shoes, they're cheap.

When you're getting cars inspected, if it looks like dookie, it probably is. Clean, paint and generally make the car look as good as possible BEFORE it hits the inspection lane. I was always predisposed to look at a clean car easier.


Edited by Mark LaVallee (07/24/09 07:28 PM)

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cspetros
Scores a 10


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 814377 posted 07/24/09 10:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

i felt like telling him where he can stuff his wrench.



Hopefully you told him how much work you'd put into it already.

Quote:

Clean, paint and generally make the car look as good as possible BEFORE it hits the inspection lane. I was always predisposed to look at a clean car easier.



+1 on that, fo' sho' . If you didn't before, definitely deep clean the car inside and out before you go back to him. Take care of all the cheap mechanical stuff (brakes, etc.) hindering you from passing the inspection. Get that ECU taken care ASAP. Take off the bumpers and check out the areas where they were bolted up for rust. If it's surface rust, get some rust converter (the Ospho I mentioned, or something similar [I think some kind even comes in a spray can], at Napa), and coat it well. Think of the rust as if it were an infection on your car. Infections are bad. Your car is sad because it doesn't like having rust infection. You must rid the car of the infection to make your car not sad .

I'm not sure what the rest of your summer looks like. Classes start back up on the 17th of August for me . I hope you get to finish this before you have to devote your time to something else. I'd be out there helping you in person if you weren't dang 1500 miles away.

Peace out.

-Chris

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Woosky117
Brake it Down


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 817319 posted 08/03/09 11:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
thanks for the confidence guys.

and yes we use quite a bit of salt on our roads.
it car hell. lol

right now im going between if i should continue the build now, and maybe get the car done in time for school, or to get some cheap beater for the year, and use that to commute with to school. and leave the eagle as more of a long term project.

i realy only have 1 month left, and thats without me even having the parts yet, let alone finding them, and eventualy installing them.
it would be cutting it realy close...

a little too close for comfort.

my vacation was amazing btw.

oh, and we got a new puppy!
hes only 5 weeks old.
he is a sheep dog / lab mix.
ill get a pic of him up here eventualy.
his name is shadow.

he keeps waking me up at night cuz he wants to go out.

but as for a car... right now im surfing kijiji looking for a vehicle localy.
generaly something below $1000
a quarter ton pick up, preferably japonese.

ill let you guys know what happens.
if you find anything good, that is close to me, let me know!

i could also go far a car.

any of the options that i am looking at MUST be in working order, and be able to pass inspection.
i can handle a little body work.

anyway, its late here.
ill try and get that pic of the puppy on her tomorrow.



Long live the Grandaddy of the EVO!

Posts: 192 | From: Lacombe, Alberta | Member Since: 04/28/09 | IP: (99.252.9.12) | Report this post to a Moderator


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