Thank you Hertz & Galantvr4.org

[risingsplendor]

Thank you for allowing me to join your community, I am so grateful that Galantvr4.org exists.
I always knew that the Galant VR-4 was a amazing car, since my first encounter driving my father in-laws 21 years ago. I was shocked having owned a porsche 928 5-spd, I thought… "Wow, this little Galant could run with the big boys"!
This Christmas my father in law gave it to me, (it is # 551/2000 white with black interior) I must have done something nice.
He said he gave it to me because he knew I would take good care of it and had a strong appreciation for it.
Since I received the key Christmas eve, a whole new world has opened up to me (Galantvr4.org) and the possibilities for this car.
I am a very excited 47 year old, sorry if I am posting too much information.

To the issue:
This car is in amazing condition, for having 191K miles on it, the clutch has never been replaced, (the clutch is almost non existent) however, It seems that the transmission synchro are having problems when I am up or downshifting. When I get in to 3rd the transfer case seems to be wining. and the torque falls off when I hit 5000 rpm's (despite a new turbo installed 4 months ago). Does all this sound normal for a Galant with 191,000 miles?
I am considering parking it only to drive on the weekends until I have the money to rebuild the transmission, transfer case, and AWD. What is the consequences of the transfer case going out?
I would like to rebuild the transmission to a stage 3 with EVO synchro's and redo the rest of the drive train to handle some 400hp to 600hp or as much horsepower possible while achieving amazing reliability.
I plan on sinking around $15,000 in to this amazing vehicle.
Any thoughts, other than… "this guy has too much to say"?
Thanks again for welcoming me in to your community, I look forward to being a appreciated member of your community.
Very best,
David

P.S. Should I park it until I can repair the Transfer case, transmission, and AWD?

 

[ApexHunter]

Hey David, welcome. Congratulations on that hand-me-down. It's very rare these days to find one of these cars that is still completely original and fully intact, and from the original owner (i'm assuming) no less. They were pretty amazing cars back in the day for sure, and i really like how they are very unassuming and modest looking.

When you say the you are having trouble with the synchros, how is that manifesting itself? Is it slow and reluctant to shift, is the engagement crunchy feeling, does it grind?

Does the whine that seems to be originating from the t-case only occur in 3rd gear?


Quote:

and the torque falls off when I hit 5000 rpm's (despite a new turbo installed 4 months ago).



With regard to this, i'm wondering how sharply it falls off. The stock cams and turbo are optimized for mid-range torque/power that tends to gradually fall off as the engine approaches redline. But i'm not sure if perhaps you are experiencing a more drastic drop in power? How would you describe it?

And yes, if you plan to maybe achieve those power levels reliably, good to give consideration to the drivetrain. 5-600whp is plenty attainable and fairly simple in this day and age, but keeping the drivetrain together is a bit more challenging.

 

[FlyingEagle]

Boost leak test with soapy water around the TB and any intercooler hoses/pipes. Home Depot makes some nice rubber caps in the appropriate size to install to the turbo inlet, install a rim valve to this to allow compressed air to be hooked up - regulate this air to a maximum of 15 psi!! Very important.
Clutch drag test - park brake off, trans in first gear, clutch pedal to floor/all the way down, rev to redline; if car moves forward - the clutch is dragging. Do this with the motor warmed up please.
Ask your father in law if the transfer case recall has been performed or provide the VIN to your local dealer to establish if a new seal/yoke/fluid were installed along the way.

Sounds like you are going to have a very fun car on your hands.

Noticed your wanton to EVO gearing/syncros of the updated variety. Call TRE or Tim Zimmer - TMZPerformance(http://www.tmzperformance.com/Mitsubishi%20Transmission%20Rebuilds.html) and see what stocks are still available for the AWD DSM/GVR4 transmissions. Mitsu isn't supplying/producing anymore EVO3 gearsets, including genuine MHI Evo3 turbos anymore from what I recall.
500-600 HP is pushing the limits of reliability in every facet. Achievable, yes. Fun to drive, yes and no. Driveline upgrades to accomodate the power levels - expensive and remove all fun in driving the car in anything other than full pedal mode; READ not technically streetable. If you haven't already seen the video of the white GVR4 with welded bits, they are a handful IMHO. My FWD with upgraded clutch, Quaife, lightweight flywheel, is a handful. These cars do not shift like butter, keep well cut input splines/allow for proper engagement up/downshift of clutch, require most if not all rubber components to be uprated/replaced by this point.

Read the primer threads in the archive ... there might be one in the newbie section too ...

We had some recent debates about all this but I'll be buggered if I could remember what thread they were posted to.

You'll have a blast here and it is good that you have a budget. If you have a reputable shop to work with or you have LOTS of free time, that is what you will need to prep the car to handle power, and safely!!! Two very big factors.

Come up with a full length list of parts that need upgrading/replacement, and the awesome folks here can attest to what might work best and where to source it currently.

Oh, and .....

Welcome !!

P.S. If your transmission won't shift properly (diagnosis required for possible seized shifter bushings at cable ends (trans side), clutch drag, etc) and you have drivetrain noises, please consider for the sake of any remaining syncro function - to park the car until you have a game plan for proper diagnosis.
Jack's transmissions has some videos on youtube showing the function and some key things to look for with regards to clutch issues. Hope that helps some too.

 

[iceman69510]

If the trans has never been apart in this car, I would suggest sending it for a rebuild. Some of the basic upgrades that came to market in successive years since 1991 like improved synchro materials and the double-synchro second gear would benefit you greatly with reasonable investment.

I think you can do nice things to the car for far less than $15k. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[risingsplendor]

Thanks ApexHunter,
This is really a amazing community, thanks for the welcome.
The transmission/Clutch… 191,000k mile clutch or pressure plate in its self is problematic, but the first thing I noticed the first time I drove it was that the linkage bushings were shot.
Transmission: unless I have solidly put it in ( R) reverse or I am holding it while reversing it may slip out. 1st, must be as a almost a dead stop to have a smooth engagement. Down shifting 3rd to 2nd is most problematic it seems crunchy, and can grind, which is odd since I would think at the RPM's I am attempting to do the down shift, it should synchronize the shift, making it much easier to engage with out any grind, (but it is reluctant, crunches and occasionally grinds still).
The whining in the trans or t-case is heavy in 3rd and continues into 4th and 5th.
I know 191k isn't a lot of miles for this engine especially when it was maintenance regularly and the oil has always been changed on time, however, the RPM drop seems to not be a torque issue. When i get it in to 4th it doesn't seem to fall off the same, it seems to keep pulling.
I wish I had read everyones posts before this monday morning, because I could have paid more attention to all of these questions better.
As for HP I am not set on any number, especially the more I have read the forms.
I am looking for a fun a reliable possible daily driver, I would rather drop 30k in to this car and redo everything than to buy a new car.
thanks ApexHunter.
best,
David

 

[risingsplendor]

Thanks FlyingEagle,
Wow, a lot of info. I think I will do the clutch drag first, and get around to that turbo when I have some time (do i need a air pressure regulator, or will the regulator on my portable air compressor be accurate enough)?
I will get in touch with the dealer today about the Seal/yoke/fluid.
Quote:
500-600 HP is pushing the limits of reliability in every facet. Achievable, yes. Fun to drive, yes and no


I really appreciate your input on this, as I stated to ApexHunter, I want a car with good/great drivability, horsepower isn't so much of a issue, but I would like to be able to put down a Shelby GTR 350 or a Z 28 but it isn't a deal breaker, and I am assuming that 400hp in this frame is going to light up almost everything out there?
I will check out those videos, and work on the diagnosis asap.
Thanks FlyingEagle.
Best,
David

 

[risingsplendor]

Thanks Iceman69510,
I say $15k because everything feels pretty worn out, I don't want to drop 3 to 4k on trans to have my T-Case or AWD go a few month later, I would kind of like to redo everything in the drive train at once, I feel that it is more cost effective making sure that everything new is going to work together. Like I said, I would rather drop $30K into this car and know that its good for another 150k miles than buy something new.
but if i could get away with spending a lot less and getting reliability I would be stoked!
Your input is much appreciated Iceman.
Very best,
David

 

[Street Surgeon]

David,

Welcome to the community /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You can read through and pick out what maintenance and modifications to start with but I would just like to say that in my opinion these cars are at their best probably around the 400whp mark. As was mentioned previously, once the car has been sorted making power is easy but keeping the drivetrain together can be a bit of a challenge. A properly tuned 20G car (or maybe 68HTA powered) is an absolute blast and won't ruin the driveability of the vehicle. If I could turn back time I would have gone much, much simpler with my setup and just enjoyed the car as it was!

That being said, before you even think of adding any power make sure the motor is in a good state of tune, check all the bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, suspension bits, boost leak test the motor, make sure the plugs and wires are good to go etc. The biggest failing in this and the DSM community is that many prefer to address the power before the maintenance! Anyway, welcome and enjoy your new car!

 

[jeverts]

Quoting Risingsplendor:
Thanks Iceman69510,
I say $15k because everything feels pretty worn out, I don't want to drop 3 to 4k on trans to have my T-Case or AWD go a few month later, I would kind of like to redo everything in the drive train at once, I feel that it is more cost effective making sure that everything new is going to work together. Like I said, I would rather drop $30K into this car and know that its good for another 150k miles than buy something new.
but if i could get away with spending a lot less and getting reliability I would be stoked!
Your input is much appreciated Iceman.
Very best,
David



Tim at TMZperformance does an awesome job with transmission rebuilds I have had 2 trans done by him and they are awesome. Just a standard rebuild will run you around $1000. The T-cases in these are are pretty beefy there are plenty of guys that run full weight DSM's with 400ft lbs of torque on stock t-cases. The transmissions are defiantly the weak point in the drive line.

 

[ApexHunter]

Quoting FlyingEagle:


Boost leak test
Clutch drag test -

P.S. If your transmission won't shift properly....park the car until you have a game plan for proper diagnosis.
Jack's transmissions has some videos on youtube showing the function and some key things to look for with regards to clutch issues.



This is a great starting point.

These cars have a tendency to wear out their clutch pedal/bracket assemblies. Improper clutch disegagement aka clutch drag is a common symptom, and it sounds like something to look into sooner than later, as was suggested. I had to rebuild the pedal assembly in my car, and it was not a fun job, but very much worth the while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Give this thread a look, it may be helpful: click

 

[risingsplendor]

Thanks Street Surgeon, Jeverts, and ApexHunter,
I will most likely be following your advice on 400hp keeps this car drivable and reliable Street Surgeon.
TZM and Jacks are the two shops I have been looking at, thanks for that advice Jeverts.
ApexHunter, The link you shared has me thinking that the clutch peddle bracket assemble needs to be rebuilt, the bushing in the shifter assembly, and the transmission mounts are shot.

Many thank again,
David