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this is tdc


tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203755 posted 03/12/15 09:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Now am I off a tooth or is the cam timing just this far off from machine work?


Edit: just checked the cam card. Exhaustcenterline is out 6 and intake is out 1.5 degrees. What's a full tooth?


Edited by tektic (03/12/15 10:50 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203765 posted 03/12/15 11:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There are 48 teeth in a cam sprocket, so each tooth is 7.5 degrees.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203768 posted 03/12/15 12:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It looks like normal machined head to me. Your maybe 1/4 tooth off, or about 3 degrees. My stock gears line up like that with a machined head. You had the block decked didn't you?



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203776 posted 03/12/15 02:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Both surfaces have been redone. I will time it from here then. Thank you.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203783 posted 03/12/15 03:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In reality, if you were doing a timing belt with stock gears, you would just rotate the crank CW a tiny tiny bit and the cam marks would line up fine and the crank lines would be just barely off to the side.

Double check all your measurements to be safe though. Also I'd like to see what Evan has to say.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203785 posted 03/12/15 03:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is the exact reason for adjustable cam gears and degreeing.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203786 posted 03/12/15 04:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No, I get that. I was just making sure I had the belt on right.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203791 posted 03/12/15 05:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I agree with Ryan. Looks to be slightly off, due to machining/tighter tolerances. I'd say you're fine.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203841 posted 03/13/15 01:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wait?, We agree?


jk



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203965 posted 03/14/15 06:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm having a difficult time getting my open and close events to match the numbers on the card. I found it easier to match the center lines with the spot I found peak lift. Is that good enough? I'm tring to measure open and close at .04".

Also when I'm done are the timing marks on the cam supposed to line up again?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203991 posted 03/15/15 01:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's pretty rare for the opening and closing events to match with most cams. Use the centerline method. And not peak lift, the center of the opening and closing events.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1203992 posted 03/15/15 01:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's really easy to use an online calculator.
click

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204007 posted 03/15/15 09:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So target the calculated centerline with the one on the card. Don't measure centerline. Don't worry about opening and closing events in relation to the card, but insted just use to find actual centerline.

Ok ill try again. That seems easier.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204189 posted 03/17/15 10:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok.. . Now I forgot to take into account that I'm degreeing a stroked engine.

How should I adjust my target centerline while using a 94mm stroke crank?

I guess I should call GSC and see what they have to say. I'll report back.

Repoprt: I Talked to Gregg over at GSC, he's a super nice guy! Foremost he assured me that all his cams are sent out measured to the 5th decimal place in metric, and that any irregularity I'm getting is due to the equipment I'm using. If you saw my equipment you would agree with him too. He mentioned that a solid belt tentioner needs to be used and that his company made special flat top spring retainers so a perfect 90 degree angle can be maintained on the shaft of the dial indicator. Two things I have thus far overlooked.

So after all that he said I should concentrate on aligning my opening events to the numbers on the card. He also stated the stroke should have nothing to do with the targets.



7 1G DSM's now a GGSX build.


Edited by tektic (03/17/15 11:02 AM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204867 posted 03/26/15 08:50 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I did this to death. I got the exhaust cam exactly where it is on the card. The intake cam doesn't match the card though. It opens 1* BTDC and supposed to close 35* ABDC when in actuality it closes at 42* ABDC. I measured many times. The card for GSC S1 cams is wrong.

After all this Exhaust cam 2* R Intake cam .75* Advanced. Complete waste of time money and and effort. One of my cam caps had a heli coil holding it in. Now it does not... Destroyed the set pin for that cap too. Going to try to stud it today. Trowing the nt engine back with a 14b is looking better and better.



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Edited by tektic (12/20/15 07:17 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204870 posted 03/26/15 08:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Making the cam timing perfect is never a waste of time.



click

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204871 posted 03/26/15 09:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I truly hope your right



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204886 posted 03/26/15 11:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's not a waste. You'd be surprised to know that 1-2* cam change in the right direction can yield up to 20whp. Getting them set to where they need to be at will make the whole engine happier.

I'll be going down the same path you did. I'll be throwing on some gears and adjusting them to spec, your not alone!



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204940 posted 03/26/15 09:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My gsc stage 3's ended up at 8* advanced on the intake and straight up on the exhaust.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1204990 posted 03/27/15 10:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My intake cam seems to have 7* of extra duration not accounted for on the cam card. did you find anything like that?

This could be from my crap tools however the exhaust cam numbers all worked out perfect.
My machinist told me that small cam company hand index things and accidents happen constantly.
I know there's many other variables like valve installed height.

What I know for sure is that in my setup I have 7 extra crank degrees of intake cycle over the specified duration on the card provided. I indexed the opening event with that on the card and thats where it going to stay unless it gets dyno tuned.



7 1G DSM's now a GGSX build.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1205004 posted 03/27/15 12:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Maybe they sent a larger cam by mistake.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1205019 posted 03/27/15 02:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hmmm... The S2 intake cam is listed as a 230 duration and the s1 is only 216. That's a difference of 14.

I'm reading 7 extra degrees on the crank... which is turning half the speed of the cam. I have a S2 Intake cam?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1205020 posted 03/27/15 03:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sounds plausible. Are there any marking on the cams which would help identify this?

If it was the exhaust cam that was bigger, I'd say rock it. It would help, like a HKS 264/272 combo. Being that it's the intake, I'd try and deduce what cam it is.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1205032 posted 03/27/15 04:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting tektic:

My intake cam seems to have 7* of extra duration not accounted for on the cam card. did you find anything like that?

This could be from my crap tools however the exhaust cam numbers all worked out perfect.
My machinist told me that small cam company hand index things and accidents happen constantly.
I know there's many other variables like valve installed height.

What I know for sure is that in my setup I have 7 extra crank degrees of intake cycle over the specified duration on the card provided. I indexed the opening event with that on the card and thats where it going to stay unless it gets dyno tuned.




That's why you degree with the centerline method.

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1205035 posted 03/27/15 05:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I did it that way originally then gsc told me the opening event was more important. If I don't like how it runs I can retard it a degree to a degree and a half on the cam and that's about center. I'd do the math properly of course. I have it written down on the card.





Edited by tektic (04/25/16 04:08 PM)

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