Fan issue! Please help!

[losermakesgood]

I am having major fan issues. I have a scirroco (sp?) And 2 slim fans.

I need help with wiring layout. The wires don't match a 1g? I have a relay installed and yet I have 2 problems.

If I connect both fans one will come on immediately with the car off. Other problem is since I put the relay in, the single fan will not come on when car is up to temp. I do not have the stock setup to go off of except the stock plug the original fan used.

Why do we have 6 wires compared to 4 on 1g? Am I supposed to wire it up same as a 2g?

Also car is reaching temps of 230 at idle with this issue! Not good I know.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. this resolved asap. Moving 1000 miles in just a few weeks.

Also on a side note. Even if I have to wire them to a toggle switch temporarily for the move is fine.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Do you still have the resistor packs for both fans installed on the car? There are about 20 different ways you could wire the fans, so I'm not sure which one to suggest. The easiest would be to take the 2 wires from each resistor pack and wire them to the new fans, just like it is set up stock. It that not an option?

 

[losermakesgood]

No I do not have the stock setup unfortunately. I tried doing the relay and it didn't help. I would like it to rub off the stock system. But if I have to hard wire them through a toggle for now to get me going then so be it.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

For the 12v wire on your fan, connect the power wire to the fan directly to the battery.

Then, splice the ground wire of the fan into the blue wire with white tracer located on pin 4 of connector A-29. Everything you need to do so is in the post below. Make sure you use the links provided within. Again, this is the most simple way. There are tons of variables here, especially since I'm not sure what has already been screwed with in your wiring harness. With a properly functioning stock fan system, the way I outlined above is the easiest/best way in absence of the resistor packs. Let me know if you have any other questions.

About the toggle switch, that's not a great idea. You would need to wire in a relay, which is more involved than doing what I outlined above. Bottom line, you can't just wire a switch straight into the fan circuit.

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
The resistor on the cooling fan allows it to operate at 2 speeds. In the stock configuration, the cooling fan uses a low and a high speed relay.

The low speed relay is activated by the thermo sensor located at the bottom of the radiator just below the cooling fan. When the thermo sensor sees 185 degrees, it completes a path to ground for the low speed fan relay and activates it. The low speed relay then supplies the fan motor with a path to ground through the resistor, causing the motor to turn at low speed.

The high speed relay is activated by the engine coolant temperature switch which is located on the water neck. When the switch sees 215 degrees, it completes a path directly to ground, bypassing the resistor. This allows the fan motor to turn at full speed.

The easiest way to test the fan circuit is to jump the terminals that plug into the thermo sensor located at the bottom of the radiator. With the ignition key in the ON position, unplug the connector and jump the terminals together with a wire or something. This will simulate the thermo (fan) switch operating. The fan should kick on. If it doesn't, you probably have a wiring issue.

See these threads:
click

click

Here's the diagram:

 

[losermakesgood]

Ok that sounds great. I will try that. So my fan will act just like stock with a high and low? Can I wire in the second fan with it?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

It's hard to say how your fan will act. I can tell you for sure it won't have a low speed because you said the resistor pack was removed. If you wire the fan in the way I told you, the fan will come on when the engine coolant temperature switch sees 215 degrees. In order for this to work though, the engine coolant temperature switch, the high speed fan relay, and all the related wiring must be operating properly. If any one of these things was screwed with or not working, the system will not work even if you hook everything up correctly as I've instructed.

Yes, you could hook up both fans the exact same way, but I'm not sure that would be a good idea. You would be pulling quite a bit of current through that single relay. It would depend on how much current your fan motors pull, and how much current (how many amps) the factory relay is rated to handle. It may be written somewhere on the relay body, but I'm not sure. In short, I would say no, not to wire both fans through the same circuit. The factory system is set up with a circuit per fan, and I would assume that was for good reason.

Do you see now why I said there are many different factors at play here? Unless you have a good grasp of what's going on with the system, it's hard to give you advice without laying it out step by step. Without seeing the car and assessing the wiring, it makes giving advice go from being hard, to nearly impossible. The cooling system isn't something you want failing while your out driving around.

 

[losermakesgood]

My car doesn't hit 215. With just the single fan wired up to run always. It only gets at most 205-210. Ugh this sucks. Just trying to get the fans to come on at the lower threshold. 185? Even if I could just get the one wired up like stock. And my fans only have a 7 amp draw a piece. All I have is the stock 6 wire plug from the original fan.

 

[turbowop]

Do you have ECMlink?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting losermakesgood:
My car doesn't hit 215. With just the single fan wired up to run always. It only gets at most 205-210. Ugh this sucks. Just trying to get the fans to come on at the lower threshold. 185? Even if I could just get the one wired up like stock. And my fans only have a 7 amp draw a piece. All I have is the stock 6 wire plug from the original fan.



Well, the lower threshold just isn't in the cards for you. I mean, it's possible, but judging from what you've posted thus far, it's not a task you would probably want to undertake.

Here's your issue: You don't have the resistor pack in the system anymore. The thermo sensor (also known as the coolant temp switch, located at the bottom of the radiator) is the sensor that triggers on at the lower temp (185*). At 185*, the thermo sensor triggers the low speed fan relay, which then gives the fan motor a path to ground THROUGH the resistor pack. You would basically need to jump pins 1 and 6, thereby bypassing the resistor pack and giving the fan a direct path to ground. That's the only way to accomplish what you are asking using the factory circuitry. Honestly, it would be pretty easy to do if you know what your doing.

The reason your car doesn't get to 215 is because the fan is running constantly. Why would you expect it to get to 215* if the fan never kicks off? I told you to wire up the fan the first way I suggested because it is the easiest approach to perform/understand. Like I said, I could list 10 ways to wire this sh*t up, but you have to grasp the basic concept of how the circuit works by looking at the diagram if you are going to deviate from what I'm telling you. That is assuming, of course, that there aren't wiring issues already present in the circuit. If that's the case, I'd say you're in real trouble...

 

[losermakesgood]

I have ecmlink v3. I have the sensor that was on the stock radiator now in the 1g water neck. The only thing missing from stock is the fans and the resistor. I only had the fan wired through a relay as a temp thing just to keep it from overheating. I was never planning on driving the car this year but life threw me a wild pitch. Sorry I am not trying to be difficult. I am just trying to make sure I wire this up correctly. My plan was to wire through the stock setup but I couldn't find any info on the resistor wires. Now that I know to loop them I shouldn't have any issues. Thanks! I'll let you know tomorrow if it works lol.

 

[turbowop]

The fans will never come on at 185F anyway. When the coolant in the bottom of the radiator hits 185F (the temp at which the fan switch kicks on), the coolant at the ECU and gauge sensor is much hotter as it hasn't gone through the radiator yet. The ECU coolant temp sensor will show roughly around 203F when that happens.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Wat? The thermo sensor is now installed in the water neck?

I'm not sure how to help you at this point. I would recommend attempting to return everything back to stock, and then address the fan issue. It sounds like the circuit is completely jacked in its current state.

 

[turbowop]

Oh, you do have ECMlink. That's good. You can trigger the fans to come on earlier by wiring in one of the controllable outputs to pull the fan relays to ground based on your parameters. I removed my resistor so that my fan just uses high speed when it comes on.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
Wat? The thermo sensor is now installed in the water neck?





/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif I just saw that too. That won't help things, but if still wired the same it should cause the fans to come on sooner. Too soon actually as they would never turn off since the coolant at the water neck is so much hotter than the coolant in the bottom if the radiator.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting turbowop:
Oh, you do have ECMlink. That's good. You can trigger the fans to come on earlier by wiring in one of the controllable outputs to pull the fan relays to ground based on your parameters. I removed my resistor so that my fan just uses high speed when it comes on.



This is probably the best suggestion at this point. Reason being, the only sensor that would be used is the engine coolant temp sensor, which seems like it is working correctly and is still in the proper location judging from your posts thus far. So, it wouldn't matter that you have the fan switch stuck into the spark plug hole and sh*t.

Problem is, you need to know how to wire a relay into one of the aux inputs (EGR or similar) for ECMlink. Is that something you would need help with?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Courtesy of MS paint...

If you have any questions, just ask.

 

[losermakesgood]

Thank you for the wonderful ms paint. When I get time I will have to wire that up. that was almost exactly the idea I had in my head. On a side note. Opinions on sirocco (sp?) radiator? That is what this thing has and I am really starting to hate it. I can't get my temps in line and I think it is because of the lack of surface area to cool properly. Any ideas, thoughts, or suggestions? I am really wishing this car just had a stock setup but I don't think the stocker would fit with the IC piping and turbo on it. Sorry. I'm just on a rant cause this car is a nightmare and need it to make a 1000 mile trip in less than 2 weeks and I work 48 hours a week.

 

[turbowop]

He actually doesn't even have to get that crazy. I just ran a wire and intercepted the green/black wire at the six-pin connector for the main fan and soldered them together. That way you're just triggering the factory relays early. There are a few ways of doing it, but that's what I did.

Based on what output you choose, you don't even have to run a wire from the ECU. You can just use the output wire in the engine bay and solder it to the fan relay ground. They're actually really close together. Keeps everything looking nice and clean.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I just wanted to outline the basic operation with the diagram I posted. Mark's suggestion is definitely the best practical solution using the existing wiring. Doing it the way he outlined would save a lot of time and effort. Does what he said make sense to you, Jeff?

 

[losermakesgood]

Yes it makes perfect sense. The egr is blocked off so I would probably use that one. Now onto the cooling issue. took it for a spin today. First time in almost a year. Well it hit 230ish and well that is not good. Didn't get on it. Didn't go above 4K. It has a scirocco radiator. Running straight water with water wetter right now just trying to get the fan/cooling issue figured out. So now not only do I have to wire in the fans correctly (hate electrical), but I now also need to figure out what is going on. New radiator. 180 Thermostat. Water pump and heater core working properly. Cooling system bled 4 times to ensure no air. No ac components in the car either. Suggestions why even at idle the temps are hitting 210ish with the fan on?