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ULTRA RACING 3 PTS FENDER BAR


Nabeel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983219 posted 04/08/11 06:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just bought VR4 '92 ULTRA RACING 3 PTS FENDER BAR from ebay.



What do u think?
I think this is good upgrade for handling. I am thinking to make custom X bar down the car also.



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mitsuturbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983276 posted 04/08/11 09:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
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SleepinGVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983328 posted 04/08/11 11:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wasn't it decided that those things were useless.



Sean

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mitsuturbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983382 posted 04/09/11 03:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
bout as useful as an emu ride

at least this guy can give an objective opinion, though... i guess



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
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Nabeel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983390 posted 04/09/11 03:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Any one noticed that will be little hard to close the car's door when you jack the car? Especially the front doors? that means the chassis is not stiff enough.



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grocery_getter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983395 posted 04/09/11 07:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes you are absolutely right, the chassis is not stiff enough. However, the problem with the chassis is because the chassis twist along the floor from front to rear.

Search for the discussion for Curtis under body strengthening bar that you weld underneath the chassis along the 2 chassis "rails". That's where the chassis is weak, and welding the support rails will help tremendously. The same solutions (welding or bolting on supporting chassis rails) are also employed by many other cars with a unibody design like us. When your floor remain straight, everything will work better.

This is the same principal as welding a cage in your interior, except it is underneath and keep the lower chassis of the car to always be in one flat plane.



Andre
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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983397 posted 04/09/11 07:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, I'm sorry guys but I tend to agree. I'm convinced that I have chassis flex on my grey car and that car has no previous crash damage. It is difficult to attribute all of the rigidity of my project car to the welding that I had done in this area, but the difference is night and day in that car so I too am thinking of getting these in addition to more subframe connectors.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (04/09/11 10:11 PM)

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grocery_getter
Senior Crab
836/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983398 posted 04/09/11 07:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The triangular bar behind the fender design is also flawed. By connecting the upper hinges, lower hinges and the behind the fender mounting point, any deflection on the front quarter area are going apply a pivoting force to the behind the fender mounting point (the one showed in your picture with 3 mounting bolt). They really need to square off the design of the front mounting point by adding another mounting point to keep everything square and prevent the force from pivoting on the front mount.



Andre
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Nabeel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983399 posted 04/09/11 07:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
grocery_getter'

I am sure this is not the perfect design. At lest the only plug & play I sow for GVR4. custom is pain most of the time. I did brackets for 3kGT caliber & ended to say I spent money for non perfect one & sorry not to buy one ready.



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number3
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983404 posted 04/09/11 08:44 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The cage I put I welded into #3 along with the 3 LSD diffs where the best mods I did to the car handling wise. The car handled like it was on rails after that. Night and Day difference.



Harry
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belize1334
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983434 posted 04/09/11 12:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I seem to recall a discussion with about using these on Evos and the consensus was that they were very effective.



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green

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Chad989of2000
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983881 posted 04/11/11 10:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That company is very legit too. I've use their strut tower bars and the build quality seems great (not to mention specific for our cars and priced well).



Chad A.
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 983905 posted 04/11/11 12:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, I just ordered a set. I can't see them doing any harm and although they are very nice looking pieces they are going to be hidden under the fender so if they need another support point to be welded in it could be done and doesn't have to be pretty. I really just want to see if this creaky door issue that I have is due to chassis flex and if I can reduce it by stiffening the chassis at that location. I'm not sure yet but I may also weld these in rather than just bolt them on.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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Nabeel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 984495 posted 04/12/11 07:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I can't wait getting them. Seller offering free shipping to USA. He just send me the fedex tracking number. I may add some photos when arrived. For me they are at good price considering the shipping cost.



91 VR4
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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 984902 posted 04/13/11 10:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Fuck me, that was quick! Arrived by Fedex this morning! I'll try to get these on by the weekend and report.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 985855 posted 04/17/11 01:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Right Gentlemen,

We installed these on Saturday. Preparation (i.e. removing the fenders) is 90% of the work. The pieces are very well made and the mounting holes for the door hinge brackets lined up perfectly on both sides. My only concern is the forward mounting bracket. You simply drill two holes in the chassis and bolt it up with the supplied hardware. The section which it bolts to is double skinned but I still felt that if any force was applied to this bar that the chassis mounting point would deform long before the bar itself did.

We mounted the bar as suggested, by drilling and bolting it up but I do think welding it at the front would be preferable. In a perfect world I think maybe even welding more support into that section of the chassis would be beneficial, but I may be over engineering things.

What I can say however is that you can definitely feel a difference. It certainly is more noticeable when the suspension is under load. There is a slight improvement on cornering similar to that felt by upgrading a sway bar but the more noticeable difference comes when both struts come under compression simultaneously like when driving over a speed bump or going up a ramp. It feels more solid, there is more feedback through the chassis but like many chassis reinforcement mods like hard bushings, swaybars etc it does make the car a little more harsh and less compliant.

Edit: They have also solved my creaky door issue and the doors seem to close better now.

Anyway just thought I'd give these a thumbs up and my first impression. I'll monitor these and see if they develop any issues over time with the mounting points being too weak, but initial driving suggests that isn't an issue.

It was a good afternoon, got my '93 headlights and amber corners installed as well, together with some nice black "Ractive" pedals in place of the beaten up silver "Lonza" ones that were in the car when I bought it. I really need to wash it and take some pictures.

Paul.


Edited by cheekychimp (04/18/11 05:33 PM)

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Nabeel
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 985893 posted 04/17/11 08:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just got mine. I am thinking to wild a sheet on the body then drill it. and may use bigger bolt than they sent.




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AnotherNewb
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986016 posted 04/17/11 08:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

l, together with some nice black "Ractive" pedals in place of the beaten up silver "Lonza" ones that were in the car when I bought it. I really need to wash it and take some pictures.

Paul.




Not realysure ractive and nice belong in the same sentence..... unless the quality gets better the closer to the source.

Thanks for the review, all to often a part gets bashed without even trying it out first.



Every terrorist killed is a victory for Wookalar

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986038 posted 04/17/11 09:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
LOL I didn't know Ractive stuff had a bad rap. I'm just not a fan of flashy shiny pedals. I picked these up off someone on the site, they are really simple just powder coated flat black with just a few holes and rubber raised grips on the surface. The clutch pedal has a few scratches but you can hardly see with them installed. I just like them because they are unassuming and discrete without looking crap like the worn down stock rubber pedals did.

As for the fender bars, I can definitely say that they have resolved almost all of my creaking issues. I was listening as I drove the car today and pretty much all the noises that were emanating from the driver's door area have gone, which suggests to me that a combination of chassis flex and door hinges inside the fender that clearly hadn't seen lubrication for years were the main culprits. The only remaining sound sometimes evident on acceleration and braking seems lower and could well be a subframe or control arm bushing. It's not a ball joint or sway bar link, since Ken swapped those out for me last week. So overall, I'm very happy with these bars already.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (04/18/11 05:37 PM)

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Brunoboy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986106 posted 04/18/11 06:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
how do you order from the site anyways???



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986107 posted 04/18/11 07:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
something you would recommended for a track car paul?

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ItsAliiive
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986140 posted 04/18/11 10:49 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sounds like the ractive pedals get a bad rap because of how they hold to the oem pedals. If all they have are some tabs that you bend around the pedals then that is a huge fail IMO. Once the tabs get weak and break the aftermarket pedal is no longer "attached" to the oem pedal.

Imagine having to brake hard and your foot and aftermarket pedal slide off the actual brake pedal.

Here is some mazda 3 member's review:

click

click

And here are some pics of assembly on some random retail site:

click

I will never put a pedal on my car that does not require drilling the oem pedal, I want a pedal that I know is secure.

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DR1665
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986179 posted 04/18/11 02:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Nabeel:




What do u think?




I've actually been thinking about picking up a set of these for the rally car, since my cage will not be going through the firewall to the front turrets. Galants are nose-heavy bitches and prone to hard landings. My concern is that I'll start bending the nose upward over time. A set of these (or similar, probably have Kent make them), combined with proper triangulation from the turrets to the center of the firewall would be a nice compromise, imo.



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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AnotherNewb
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986190 posted 04/18/11 03:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
On a rally car I would definitely weld a 1/8 plate in and bolt to that rather than drill and nut it on. Im sure that just bolting it in will lead to oval holes after just a jumps.



Every terrorist killed is a victory for Wookalar

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 986218 posted 04/18/11 05:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting brunoboy:

how do you order from the site anyways???




I ordered off eBay, shipped the same day and here in three but obviously Malaysia is much closer to me.


Quoting GVR40:

Something you would recommended for a track car Paul?




Definitely! There is a noticeable difference in handling which surprised me and it has quite obviously eliminated chassis flex in my car and for any car used in motorsport, chassis stiffening can only be a good thing. Again I would take the time to reinforce the area you are bolting the front support to, the same goes for Brian with a rally car so I'll address this below as well.


Quoting DR1665:

I've actually been thinking about picking up a set of these for the rally car, since my cage will not be going through the firewall to the front turrets. Galants are nose-heavy bitches and prone to hard landings. My concern is that I'll start bending the nose upward over time. A set of these (or similar, probably have Kent make them), combined with proper triangulation from the turrets to the center of the firewall would be a nice compromise, imo.




That was pretty much what I did on my other car welding in supports between the strut towers and firewall since I only have a half cage/roll bar. I also welded some flat stock vertically onto the chassis in front of the hinges and some 1/2 inch metal rod horizontally along the top of those rails that run parallel to the edge of the hood under the fender, but I didn't triangulate the two so I may fit a pair of these onto that car in the future. I think welding in a plate would work for a street car, in fact it may already be overkill for a daily driver but for the sort of abuse that you are suggesting, I am really not sure it is enough. The box section that the front support attaches to just seems very thin to me and even if you weld a plate in I would be concerned about the thinner metal on either side of it deforming. That was why when I did my other car I didn't use Curtis' nice lightweight subframe connectors but used really thick heavy angle iron instead. Once the car is running I will have mounting plates made for my roll bar that I can weld between the subframe connector and the pinch rail under the door sill and add triangular supports on each side.

For the rally car I'd be inclined (weight permitting) to weld 1/4 inch plates to both sides of that rail. One inside the engine bay with one edge welded right into the crease where the strut tower meets the edge of the engine bay. The one on the outside I would make rectangular extending forward at least as far as the forward support point of this fender bar. Then I would drill a hole right through both plates and the rail, run a bar through it and tie that into the other bar you intend to weld between the strut tower and the firewall. I would also weld right around the circumference of the bar where it passes through the plates. When you build your own fender bars, tie them into your door hinges but use all three bolts on the upper hinge (not just two as with this design) and in addition to making one forward support point just behind the strut tower as with these, tie in a 4th attachment point where your support bar goes through the rail. Depending on how far you want to go you could do the same at the bottom in front of the bottom hinge and weld in a vertical support bar between the two. The next airtime you get you'll probably bend the planet.


Quoting 3of1000:

Sounds like the ractive pedals get a bad rap because of how they hold to the oem pedals. If all they have are some tabs that you bend around the pedals then that is a huge fail IMO. Once the tabs get weak and break the aftermarket pedal is no longer "attached" to the oem pedal.




Actually, point taken. This is exactly the problem I encountered fitting these initially and had to get a bit creative. Over the summer I may do exactly as you suggest and 'bolt' some mounting plates onto the oem metal pedals that these can attach to better.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (04/18/11 09:23 PM)

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