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who has maxxed out a Big16G?


Ash
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61425 posted 05/09/03 06:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm just curious how fast you can actually go with the humble big 16g.

What is the maximum boost they can support with race gas?

I'm hoping for a low 12 now that the weather has cooled down and I have a Keydiver chip. I have previously got a best of [email protected] with really slow shifts (cables broken) in the dead of summer running 22psi. I've got a totally unopened motor (Balance shafts intact, stock cams) and was wondering what the time to beat is with this turbo, according to http://times.dsm.org its about [email protected]

Any input? I'm heading out tomorrow night.

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
77/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61426 posted 05/09/03 01:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just read in some tuner magazine last nite that the big 16 flows 550 cubic feet per minute and can support up to 380 hp. I have one too. Guess it'll be a long time before I can justify a turbo upgrade! [Big Grin]

dp

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61427 posted 05/09/03 05:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
On Wed night a friend of mine who has similar mods as me on his AWD Talon ran a [email protected] on a B16g. He was on 110 octane and 20psi. Unopened engine and stock cams also. I am hoping for the same out of my car tonight.

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Ash
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61428 posted 05/09/03 11:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well I was going to try something over 20psi, let ya know if the comp wheel falls off.

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61430 posted 05/10/03 11:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Akidosigh1:
How is this possible?

Ooh-ooh, I think I know... was it 40°C and 100ft below sea level?

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
77/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61431 posted 05/10/03 12:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If I remember from looking at a compressor map, the big 16g is good 'til about 22psi. After that, efficiency really starts to taper off.

dp

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4orced4door Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61432 posted 05/10/03 12:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Hertz:
quote:
Originally posted by Akidosigh1:
How is this possible?

Ooh-ooh, I think I know... was it 40°C and 100ft below sea level?
Actually 40°C is 104°F. Pretty warm... [Big Grin]

That 12.02 sounds awfully low for his level of mods. My car is basically the same as that, minus the dump tube O2, and I know I'm nowhere near a low 12. They must be leaving off some stuff, namely fuel control and delivery, intercooler, etc. That just doesn't seem like a complete mod list at all.

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andy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61433 posted 05/10/03 10:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
For one, you cant compare what a DSM can run on turbo "X" to what a Galant will run, the weight and even more importantly the aerodynamics come into play. As far as Phil running those times, I can beleive it. Doug Derby, Aaron Wilson, and Leon Reitman have all ran 12.01-12.05 range on 14Bs with similar setups.

You can run big/small 16Gs to 23-24 psi, but you really arent maxing one out until you actually have it where boost is tapering off past 6k rpm. In other words, you have boost set at 23psi, and it will fall to 19 psi by 7krpm. It doesnt hurt the performance one bit, its just the engine outflowing the turbo. The fastest anyone has ran on a big/small 16G in a Galant is what 12.3-12.4? Im sure Nate or Josh could tell ya.

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Craig91
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61434 posted 05/11/03 12:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Phil was from here in Connecticut, and I had the opportunity to watch him run a few times at LVD.

Here is one of his posts from DSM Tuners. It's about the most detailed that I've seen about his car.

quote:
The car: 1990 Talon TSi AWD, currently at just over 78,000 miles

Best ET: [email protected]
Best MPH: [email protected]
Best 1/8 ET & MPH: [email protected]
Best 60': 1.65

Race weight: car+me+1/4 tank or so gas= 2850 lbs.

Mods: K&N, XBC, Magnecor wires, BPR7ES plugs, ported '95 mani, ported turbine housing, portedO2 dump, 2.5' DP, test, 3" ATR, DSM performance underdrive crank pulley, Extreme fuel pump. Eibach pro, KYB AGX, Power Slot rotors, stainless lines, Axxix pads, full Energy Bushing kit, Prothane motor mount kit, ACT 2600-full face disc, front and rear strut braces, lower honeycomb removed as well as divider wall in that same lower chamber, TB coolant bypass, EGR block.

Other things: carbon fiber hood, OMP pins, Racing Hart CP035 16X7--9.6 lbs. each, Z-Speed lightweight lugs, Nitto Drag radials.

I launch anywhere from 5000 to 5600 depending on my traction and track conditions. Tire pressure varies from as low as 18psi to street 31 psi, again, depending on track prep and track temp.

I DO NOT power shift the 1-2 or the 2-3. Friends of mine have actually said to me after some of my passes, "Phil, it looks like you are shifting slow from 1-2,"....well, I am. My 2-3 shift is very quick, even quicker than my 3-4 power shift, but, it is not a power shift, I do back off the throttle. I shift the 1-2 before my front wheels hit the 60' in most cases, hence the 1.73 60' on my 12.02. Not exactly a quick 60'. I shift the 2-3 and 3-4 between 6100-6400, yes, that early. I am in 4th gear before I hit the 1/8 mile, probably around 600ft. I have run 4.97 seconds to the 330' mark, 10.0 to the 1000'. Estimated 0-60mph blast of 3.3 seconds.

I have been drag racing the Talon since October of 1996 when it was bone stock......best time was [email protected], and still the slowest time ever on the car was [email protected], this car was never in the 15's. The funny thing is, I couldn't drive it at all back then, I had the car for 20 days at that point, my 60's were 2.0. Had I known a little more about driving it then, I might have run 14.5-6 in bone form.

So, this has been a long road for me....14.85 to 12.02...almost 3 second gain without a turbo swap. My turbo has never been out of the car, it stayed in when I swapped turbine housings. Over 22 mph gain in MPH, on the same turbo.

So, do hold the record? So I thought. So I'm told. I have the quickest 14b time on the list at this point. Yes, I heard of an 11.98 pass, I tried to contact the person and learn more about it with no replies. Just someone that knows him or saw him once or whatever. Not that I doubt the possibility....I saw a list of mods that showed 8.5:1 pistons and balance shaft removal and other mods...so, its possible, but, for some reason, that person, if this is true, does not want to be known.....and being from CT and living in MD, no, I don't surf Carolina DSM's site.

Last, what is still stock...I/C and piping, injectors, intake tube and aircan still there, stock turbo outlet elbow is still there, intake mani and t/b, and engine itself is bone.

AS far as quickest DSM with least mods.....I can honestly say, I hold that title. Next year is coming fast, I am not done with the 14b yet.....I have a few more things I want to try yet......


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Ash
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61435 posted 05/11/03 07:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by andy:
For one, you cant compare what a DSM can run on turbo "X" to what a Galant will run

that's exactly my point, its just lately I've heard of galants running 12.9 with a 14b, surely a 16G is more than 1/2 a sec better?

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NoMoreVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61436 posted 05/11/03 08:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
check out http://dsmtimes.org/

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turboflanagan
I would give myself something respectable.
478/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61437 posted 05/11/03 08:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Looks like you will surge at anything above 20psi with a stock head, lower boost with a ported head. 20psi is right on the surge line on the map at 222cfm, which is about where I'm guessing these make full boost? 3200rpm?

I'm trying to figure out how best to push my 14b before just swapping to something different because I need other mods before a turbo.

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Marty
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61438 posted 05/11/03 09:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
"was wondering what the time to beat is with this turbo, according to http://times.dsm.org its about [email protected]"

It depends as to whether or not you have a stock fmic and piping as well. I ran stock IC and piping with a big 16g and would get a jump to 22 psi but could only hold 18. If I had better piping and a nice fmic Im sure my mph would have been much better. I also had stock all season tires on it at the time. My times were [email protected] mph with a 1.8X 60ft. With a nice 1.6 60 ft that could have been a 12.3ish run.
Marty

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andy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61439 posted 05/12/03 09:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by turboflanagan:
Looks like you will surge at anything above 20psi with a stock head, lower boost with a ported head. 20psi is right on the surge line on the map at 222cfm, which is about where I'm guessing these make full boost? 3200rpm?

I'm trying to figure out how best to push my 14b before just swapping to something different because I need other mods before a turbo.

I dont care what paper says, I have never ever in the 7 years I have been tooling with these cars hear of a 16G compressor surging, no matter the boost level.

Head work WILL NOT affect surge lines, either. Theres just not that much of an improvement to be had with these heads. There is a big misconception about headwork picking up easy HP and or making a big difference. The technology of casting is so much more improved over stuff from the 60s, where you used to see large gains from headwork, since the factory castings were so nasty. Its just not like that anymore, you can make 600hp on stock untouched DSM heads.

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dsmsleeper
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61440 posted 05/13/03 11:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The 'sleeper 16g' is said to have compressor surge if you don't downshift.

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howard
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61441 posted 05/13/03 11:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by dsmsleeper:
The 'sleeper 16g' is said to have compressor surge if you don't downshift.

Yeah, but it ain't a 16G.

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number3
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61442 posted 05/13/03 07:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I ran a 12.5 @ 109 on a small 16G years ago but I sure wish I knew then what I know now.

Harry

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61443 posted 05/13/03 07:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
but I sure wish I knew then what I know now.

Wanna enlighten some of us small 16g guys with some of that knowledge? [Smile] I'm curious as to what you're talking about.

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1quickvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61444 posted 05/13/03 09:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The only thing a sleeper shares with a 16g is half of its name.

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61445 posted 05/13/03 09:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by turbowop:
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
but I sure wish I knew then what I know now.

Wanna enlighten some of us small 16g guys with some of that knowledge? [Smile] I'm curious as to what you're talking about.
Sure... IC PSI testing for boost leaks is the big one... datalogging was very new idea (we tuned with a volt meter and o2 sensor)... modified reliable trannies were not thought of yet... buy a clutch that can hold the actual power you put down so your not constantly replacing them and wasting time breaking them in (ACT and DSMs were new), correct step on flywheel, and last but not least on my quickly thrown together incomplete list, stick with a combo until it is fully maxed out.

Some of the most fun I have had in number3 were with the high mileage and beat 16g I ran back in the late 90s.

Harry

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61446 posted 05/13/03 11:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good stuff! I think I have all that other than a modded tranny, but mine still shifts good *knock on wood*. I just fixed a big boost leak at my bov flange. Hopefully that will make for some more effecient runs down the 1/4 next weekend.

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dsmsleeper
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61447 posted 05/14/03 07:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by 1quickvr4:
The only thing a sleeper shares with a 16g is half of its name.

...and the TD05H compressor housing and the center cartridge and probably the WG actuator. Yes, both (compressor housing and center cartridge) are modified, but hey the b16g doesn't have the same compressor wheel as the 16g and the center cartridge is slightly different for the larger wheel as is the compressor housing. [Wink]

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Doug Thomas
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61448 posted 05/14/03 09:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I’ve run a best time of [email protected] with a small-clipped 16G. I tried a big 16G a few weeks after and the best time I could run with it was [email protected] In my opinion a big 16G is waste of time over a small 16G.

Best runs with small 16G time slips.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dougvr4/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.dnm=Small16G.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

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1quickvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 61449 posted 05/14/03 02:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I wasent trying to get technical..........lol

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