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Going back to a single disk clutch

turbowop

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
Since people will probably wonder why I'm downgrading, I'll explain:

I installed my QM twin back in June '07. After blowing springs out of two ACT disks I was happy to get away from sprung hubs and ACT in general. About two weeks later I drove the car to Seattle to get pics taken for the Modified article. The car wasn't shifting into third gear for sh*t and I realized I needed to pull the trans out and fix it. At that point I decided to wait until the next year to mess with it due to money and time issues. It needed a new third gear hub/sleeve/synchro. The next year I purchased a house and had no time for racing. Basically, I installed a race clutch and never used it for racing.

Fast-forward to now. I recently did a 5-lug swap and put on some new wheels/tires. Drove the car around for the first time since last fall and finally realized I can't f***ing stand this clutch for putting around town anymore. If I were going to the track every weekend trying to bang through gears as fast as I could, I would love it. But as it sits now, I hate the harsh, chattery, loud decel reverberations, noise at the stoplights, etc. I LOVE the quick revving and fast shifting it allows, and the not having to worry about popping springs, but it's just not worth the compromise anymore. Call me a vagina, whatever, it's coming out... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif Maybe I'm just getting old.

This week I ordered a Southbend Clutch setup from TMZ. I purchased the SS-X pressure plate and dual friction kevlar/ceramic sprung disk. I also picked up a new ACT flywheel and all the associated hardware to go along with it. I'm crossing my fingers that I don't have any issues with the sprung hub. I had ACT disks that went through a LOT of abuse, but had issues with last couple before the switch to the twin. I'm ready to try the sprung hub again. Along with the new clutch I'm installing an English Racing trans that is basically the same as a stage-4 Sheptrans and has the Evo3 3-4 gears and double cone synchros through fourth gear. It also has a welded center diff. I'm going to see how I like it and change to a 4-spider if I decide I can't stand it.

Has anybody else used this SBC/TMZ clutch? I did some research and looked at other brands like Clutchnet, but this one just seemed to suit me the best. I also like that they're being sold by a solid DSM guy that is willing to talk about the best options and give great advice over the phone.
 

KiNgMaRtY

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
I got the TMZ setup, South Bend Clutch Heavy Duty TZ/FE-Series. I had the ACT 2600 and took a dump on me after 1500 miles or so, spring popped out as well and it was killing me on the 70 mile roundtrip stuck in traffic going 5mph.

Let me tell you, Tim was correct. I love it! It is very soft, feels OEM. I want to say it is almost as soft as the Center Force I once had on my 2g when I owned it. It definitely does grab as well. I had it installed with an RRE flywheel.
 

GSX_TC

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Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
Tim is a good guy, I met him last year at the shootout, he seemed pretty cool.
 

DynastyLCD

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
761
Location
Harwinton, CT
you vagina.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

i feel you on this one. i took my PTT out last fall and put a single disc back in. tell you the truth, as much as i love the racecar feel, and all the things about these cars that people hate (vibrations, push button clutch, chatter), it felt great to go back to the single disc. the twin disc is awesome... but when you don't race your car, you're right, its money that could have been better spent elsewhere, and its just plain inconvenient.

i was glad to go back to the single disc. i use an unsprung 4 puck, and i love it. besides, $250 to rebuild your clutch on a yearly basis (if you abuse it like me) can get under your skin when you can use the same damn disc/flywheel/plate year after year, with maybe a disc change every once in awhile. i had a transmission that had input shaft end play, ended up damaging the splines on the disc closer to the transmission. that cost me two discs and a floater plate. no good.

if they could make a heavier flywheel for these twin disc setups, retain the amazing shifting but get away from the clutch chatter and harsh disengagement from a stop, it would be a really nice for most modified 4G63 cars. problem is, as good as the shifting might feel, it gets old when you roll away from a light a few times... or better yet, get stuck in stop and go traffic on the highway. been there... it sucks.

go back to the single and don't look back, Mark. you'll be happy and you will enjoy driving the car much more!
 

turbowop

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
The breaking point was last Saturday night. The girlfriend and I went over to my sister's house for drinks and dinner. I decided to take 1051 since I'd just washed it and had the nice new wheels/tires on it. We left her place about 10:30pm. The car is cold blooded with no FIAV and this clutch. Not wanting to rev up my loud car for a couple minutes at that time of night in a quiet neighborhood to warm it up, I left right after starting the car. We went around the block and when coming up to a stoplight, the car died due to the low inertia of the clutch and motor still being cold.

Here is the awesome part...my f***ing starter has been acting up. It will spin but doesn't always engage the flywheel. So when does it decide to act up the worst? Right then. About 20ft from the stoplight with traffic behind me. So normally the car would start right back up, but in this case it would just spin and do nothing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif So I keep hitting the starter waiting for it to finally engage when a cop pulls up. I explain the problem and she steps back to look at the car and then looks at my seats as I'm sitting in one with the door open. Then tells me these things wouldn't happen "if I didn't modify my car like this". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif Right about then, the starter engages and the car fires up. She tells me she must be good luck and I say thanks, rev up, and head home.

The next day I replaced the starter with a new one and decided to go back to a single.
 
Last edited:

SleepinGVR4

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Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
2,483
Location
Danville, Pennsylvania
Mark let us know how you like your Southbend. I had one years ago and had a spring pop out of the disk (this was before TMZ sold them). I don't know what caused it especially since I never drove the car hard.

I have a ClutchNet now and I think I'm having the same problem as another member did. He discovered that the disk hubs between the factory and the clutchnet were not the same (clutchnet is thicker).

I'm debating about trying another Southbend.
 

MellowVR4

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Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif(TMZ) tim zimmer is awesome
 

GSX_TC

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Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
There is a way to make a twin disc feel like stock ya know. You have to use an accumulater. Don't just give up on daily driving with twin disc's.
 

turbowop

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Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
I have an accumulator and a BNIB 2g AWD slave cylinder sitting in the garage. They won't magically make the clutch feel like a single disk, Mike. That, and they won't fix the low inertia that causes so much stalling.

Have you ever driven a twin disk in a full weight car? It's a bigger bitch than you might think. I swear I just saw a thread you posted in where you just learned about the accumulator, and now you're posting about it as if you know all the twin disk tricks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 
Last edited:

Galantvr41062

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Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
410
Location
plymouth, MN
Ceramic or feramic? Feramic material is metal based and on the flywheel side of the clutch, more of a problem with aluminum flywheels if you slip the clutch a lot on a hard launch or if it slips from power the Feramic material can weld it self to the flywheel.

I used to be one of the biggest SBC reps and distributors in the import market.

I had a Feramic full face disk fuse in my personal car and my friends TT Stealth, and 1 customer with an evo.

Other wise they use the best clutch parts on the market from OS Giken and Exedy.

So have no more worries of exploding springs.

If you want more info PM me.
 

DynastyLCD

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
761
Location
Harwinton, CT
Quoting turbowop:
Have you ever driven a twin disk in a full weight car? It's a bigger bitch than you might think. I swear I just saw a thread you posted in where you just learned about the accumulator, and now you're posting about it as if you know all the twin disk tricks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



dude... it sucks in a light, gutted 1g... i can only imagine how much pushing a full weight GVR4 is.
 

turbowop

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
Quoting Galantvr41062:
Ceramic or feramic? Feramic material is metal based and on the flywheel side of the clutch, more of a problem with aluminum flywheels if you slip the clutch a lot on a hard launch or if it slips from power the Feramic material can weld it self to the flywheel.

I used to be one of the biggest SBC reps and distributors in the import market.

I had a Feramic full face disk fuse in my personal car and my friends TT Stealth, and 1 customer with an evo.

Other wise they use the best clutch parts on the market from OS Giken and Exedy.

So have no more worries of exploding springs.

If you want more info PM me.




I got the ceramic/kevlar. I read about the feramic issues and asked Tim about them. He explained how it's possible for that to happen and said it wasn't an issue in most cases, but still recommended what I ended up with instead.
 
Last edited:

Jason G.

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Oct 7, 2003
Messages
3,279
Location
Anderson, SC
Quoting turbowop:
I swear I just saw a thread you posted in where you just learned about the accumulator, and now you're posting about it as if you know all the twin disk tricks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
 

alansupra94

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
Interesting. This is the first time I heard of an accumulator mentioned on this forum. Only other time I have seen this was in Porcshes.

In other news, I am getting a twin disc /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and it is solar powered.
 

Galantvr41062

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Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
410
Location
plymouth, MN
I have the back up race motor, head and cams from the race car and twin disk from the race car in my DD Galant and its a hard combo to drive.

I will be swapping in a Spec stage3 and stock cams next week.
 

Terry Posten

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Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
I bet you will be pulling the welded diff out soon.

IMHO - in a street car, a 4-spider will be just fine and will be so much easier to live with.

The 1% of the time you will spin one front tire launching, is far superior to every corner you take the front tires will chirp and buck.
 

turbowop

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Messages
11,971
Location
Yakima, WA
I would have gone 4-spider in the first place, but this trans already had a welded center. I bought it two years ago from a buddy that only ran it a couple passes at the track before he blew a transfer case. He then parted the car and I picked up the trans for an amazing price.

When I called Lucas (English Racing) about doing a 4-spider he quoted me $700 for one installed. He only wanted to use a fresh new diff for the conversion since all the gears in the trans are new, rather than an old used core to convert, so it'd be a bit expensive. I've spent so much money on this car in the past couple of months that I wanna just see how much I like or dislike the welded before I spend anymore money.

*edit*

Looks like I got a sweet new signature due to this thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowrofl.gif
 
Last edited:

Brianawd

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Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
The 2g slave and accumulator make a huge difference. I mean HUGE. I could DD my galant after I did the swap with know problem. Slipping the clutch was cake. But I guess a twin is just not for every one. If my evo ever gets up to the 500+whp area a twin will be going in.
 

GSX_TC

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Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
My bad, I didn't mean to come off as I knew all about twin discs, I was just trying to throw in my 2 cents to see if that would help.
 

Brianawd

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Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
Quote:
The 1% of the time you will spin one front tire launching, is far superior to every corner you take the front tires will chirp and buck



At the power mark is at you end up killing the center diff. Even a 4spider will die at anything over 500whp. Ask me how I know. I went to the welded as you don't get the porpoising on the launch. That porpoising is what kills center diffs. But mark does not drag race so he would be find with a 4spider.
 
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