GalantVR4.org The Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Forum
Galant VR-4 Forums » Galant VR-4 » Technical Discussions » Evo 8 cams in a 4G63
Previous thread Next thread

Evo 8 cams in a 4G63


1qkfwd
Member
1868/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899392 posted 05/17/10 02:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Seems like everytime I bring up the subject it starts cluttering other threads.

I know the swap has been done successfully, they just don't want to share how they did it. Why do the swap? Well the cams are bigger than any factory grind cam for the 1g or 2g. They are also lighter since they are hollow. Finally they can be had pretty cheap. I got mine free from a buddy with the gears.

I haven't finished the swap yet since I still need to get me a set of cam gears. But I have looked at the cams and did some comparisons to the 1g cams. The evo cams bolt into the 1g/2g head. Part of the swap will require the intake cam to be installed where our exhaust cam is and vise versa. That leaves the notch where it needs to be for our cam angle sensor. The downside to this is the notch is not in the right spot with the cam set up at tdc. This is the part I haven't sat down and figured out yet, but I see three ways of doin this. We can possibly change the firing order, second reconfigure the trigger disc in the cam angle sensor, lastly get the kiggly crank trigger setup. With the last one being costly for a budget I'm gonna try to leave that out. As for the timing belt side, the first look is that with the cams swapped around the dowels are 45* off from the dsm cams. Ours sit vertical as the evo cams sit horizontal. I'll get pics as time goes by. I'm in the process of getting 1868 back on the road. Once that's done I'm gonna toy around with cams and see if I can get everything done on the evo cam swap. As for now it's up for disscusion.



92 eclipse FWD [email protected]
92 Talon AWD Best et [email protected] 1.39 60'
2011 GTX series here we come!
#1868/2000 Looking for 10s on pump

Posts: 209 | From: Sun Valley, NV | Member Since: 09/29/09 | IP: (166.205.139.152) | Report this post to a Moderator

AnotherNewb
flutterdumper


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899399 posted 05/17/10 05:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What are the Evo cams profile? What aftermarket cam would they be compairable to? This subject truely intrigues me.



Every terrorist killed is a victory for Wookalar

Posts: 1469 | From: Orlando, FL | Member Since: 04/26/10 | IP: (74.99.49.91) | Report this post to a Moderator

Muskrat
Senior Member
665/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899414 posted 05/17/10 07:49 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.

Do a google search for this. There are a few how-to's for installing these on dsm talk and tuners I think. Should be able to find cam comparisons too.



Brian L.
91 Galant VR-4 #665/2000

Posts: 2105 | From: Lexington, KY | Member Since: 06/13/04 | IP: (63.238.139.239) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899417 posted 05/17/10 08:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They bolt right in and all you need to do is put a notch in the intake cam for the cam sensor. Basically from what I know is that they are comparable to 264 degree cams. Like mentioned before, you can pick up a set for almost free. I still can't find 264's for less that 200 a set. Also I think the EVO cams have a faster ramp than HKS cams, not sure though.

Contact Road/Race Engineering, they've done the swap and know what's needed.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy


Edited by prove_it (05/17/10 08:11 AM)

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (96.2.247.30) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899418 posted 05/17/10 08:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are EVO 9 cams the same?



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

Posts: 7298 | From: Hong Kong, New Territories | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (218.250.49.198) | Report this post to a Moderator

1qkfwd
Member
1868/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899476 posted 05/17/10 11:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The evo 9s where mivec. Not sure if they would work or not, I havent really looked into it. Ive been looking up cam specs and cam up with two different numbers. Brian crower has so called specs on there site but all the numbers seem low for reality.
EVO8 specs pulled off socal evo and evom
Duration 260*Int/256*Exh
Lift 10.0 Int/ 9.5 Exh
Centerlines 109*Int/111*Exh

BC states the the EVO8 cams are
Duration 248*Int/248*Exh
Lift 9.8 Int/9.32Exh

I measured just the lobes on the evo8 cams and came up with
Lift 10.41 Int/ 10.00 Exh

Theres nothing more economical than free cams.



92 eclipse FWD [email protected]
92 Talon AWD Best et [email protected] 1.39 60'
2011 GTX series here we come!
#1868/2000 Looking for 10s on pump

Posts: 209 | From: Sun Valley, NV | Member Since: 09/29/09 | IP: (75.15.197.193) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899488 posted 05/17/10 12:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You have to remember that cams come with two different specs, there is advertised and actual duration lift. It depends on where you take the measurements on the cams.

Evo cams a slight improvement over our stock cams and are good for econo build projects and mild street cars. That's it though.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (96.2.247.30) | Report this post to a Moderator

1qkfwd
Member
1868/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899494 posted 05/17/10 12:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I understand that, I do know when just measuring the lobes with a mic the evo cams are indeed a lil bit bigger than stock. Its almost the same difference between the auto cams and manual trans cams. I think that the weight savings of the cams have to be worth something to.



92 eclipse FWD [email protected]
92 Talon AWD Best et [email protected] 1.39 60'
2011 GTX series here we come!
#1868/2000 Looking for 10s on pump

Posts: 209 | From: Sun Valley, NV | Member Since: 09/29/09 | IP: (75.15.197.193) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899697 posted 05/17/10 10:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 1qkfwd:

The evo 9s where mivec. Not sure if they would work or not, I havent really looked into it.


Good point, I completely forgot about that. Interesting idea though. I wonder how much of a difference that would make if it could be utilized?



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

Posts: 7298 | From: Hong Kong, New Territories | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (116.48.213.6) | Report this post to a Moderator

iceman69510
Turn Right Racing
855/2000
828/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899701 posted 05/17/10 10:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Lobe size comparison doesn't mean anything unless valvetrain geometry and rocker arm ratios are all identical. Not saying they aren't, as I have no info in front of me to substantiate it either way, but it may not be a 1:1 comparison.



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-Daily driver status
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

Posts: 10439 | From: Michigan | Member Since: 03/05/01 | IP: (74.36.95.116) | Report this post to a Moderator

1qkfwd
Member
1868/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899712 posted 05/17/10 11:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know the dsm, evo 8, and evo 9 mivec all share the same 1.7:1 rocker ratio. The design of the evo head was based on the dsm head. It was just perfected. The ramp design of the cam is pretty similar also. I'll have to get some pics of what I was looking at today.



92 eclipse FWD [email protected]
92 Talon AWD Best et [email protected] 1.39 60'
2011 GTX series here we come!
#1868/2000 Looking for 10s on pump

Posts: 209 | From: Sun Valley, NV | Member Since: 09/29/09 | IP: (166.205.137.97) | Report this post to a Moderator

H05TYL
Hover/Stand/Bend


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899742 posted 05/18/10 02:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 1qkfwd:


EVO8 specs pulled off socal evo and evom
Duration 260*Int/256*Exh
Lift 10.0 Int/ 9.5 Exh
Centerlines 109*Int/111*Exh

BC states the the EVO8 cams are
Duration 248*Int/248*Exh
Lift 9.8 Int/9.32Exh





here's cam specs for the earlier 4G63's

Inhalation lift quantity (mm)
Inspiration angle (degrees)
Exhaust lift quantity (mm)
Exhaust action angle (degrees)

RVR SSG - 8.5 252 8.5 252
Evo 1 - 8.5 252 8.5 252
RVR HSG - 9.5 252 9.5 252
Evo 2/3 - 9.5 252 9.5 252
VR4 - 9.5 252 9.5 252
AMG - 10 260 9.5 264

Note: the above is taken from MMC's search, was originally posted by evo_x_coupe



JDM E39A - 0010362 VR-4 Project 燃えないゴミ(Unburnable Junk) - stolen
JDM E39A - 0020096 VR-4 Daily - sold


Posts: 752 | From: Wgtn, NZ | Member Since: 06/09/07 | IP: (121.73.146.65) | Report this post to a Moderator

1qkfwd
Member
1868/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 899783 posted 05/18/10 09:25 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That's very interesting. I wonder what the factory id stamp is on those cams. I've ran across alot of cams with the r series stamp. I'm starting to think these are jdm/edm cams since all these engines we get are imported. It looks as if the amg cams are close to our evo 8 cams.



92 eclipse FWD [email protected]
92 Talon AWD Best et [email protected] 1.39 60'
2011 GTX series here we come!
#1868/2000 Looking for 10s on pump

Posts: 209 | From: Sun Valley, NV | Member Since: 09/29/09 | IP: (166.205.137.97) | Report this post to a Moderator

SSGdave
Member
1855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1020194 posted 09/23/11 05:25 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Muskrat:

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.




*Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE*
Yeah, I've done it and I'll share. It's requires some very simple machine work BUT to adapt these camshafts is actually quite simple. I stumbled on to the simularities of the non MiVEC CT9A camshaft while at work (I'm a Mitsu Technician on the civilian side) so, after taking some measurements and then checking out the cam spec's, I had a machinist buddy move the camshaft's cam gear pins to the same location as the DSM/GVR4 cams using that 1st lob as a reference point. Finally the EVO intake camshaft had the CAS slot cut into it (Non MiVEC EVO cams have the CAS slot on the Exhaust cam) I also used the EVO 8 valve springs and retainers. After the machine work, the cams drop in the head just like any oem or aftermarket cam.
If any one is planning on doing this I must remind you... To get the real benefit of these camshafts you must install them in the correct orientation. The EVO intake and exhaust cam have different spec's.

Ok price... I was given 2 sets of EVO 8 camshafts for free. I also bought a set from eBay for $50
My machinist buddy charged me $40 to modify all 3 sets.
How's that for cost effective?

Now here is the funny part, I built that engine 4 years ago and it sat in storage this whole time. I recently installed that EVO 8 cam engine into 1855/2000. So I've been sitting on this information for quite some time *sorry guys*

Impressions: I have driven many different incarnations of the 4G63 engine, from completely stock to extreme modification (dsm/gvr/csm/evo) and I will tell you, these cams on 14b 11psi are noticeable, these cams on a14b at 16/17psi are noticeable. Power delivery from 4k-7.5k rpm is improved vs normal cams. Considering the price, these cams are worth it.

Once I finish the engine completely I would love to dyno it. I'm very curious as to the results. I would not be surprised if max output is not much over oem spec (respectively) BUT when and how the car makes power is much more refined. It's one of those "car should of came this way" type deals.

Bottom line, I built a Daly Driver (my version) and these cams are exactly what I wanted. It idles like stock and improves the powerband AND in certian the car is still going to pass CA emissions.



Yeah its me "SGTdave". ...and I still don't fuck around when there's work to be done.
1991 GVR4 1855/2000 - Daly Driver "Frankie"
1990 GGSX(turbo)- Project/Serious Road Race Car "Uncle Randy"

Posts: 137 | From: San Diego, CA | Member Since: 05/31/11 | IP: (166.205.140.152) | Report this post to a Moderator

mpt72
Member
72/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1020203 posted 09/23/11 06:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Damn, you make it sound easy. I have to look back into this now.... Gggrrrrrrr!

Posts: 235 | From: ridgecrest, ca | Member Since: 03/17/10 | IP: (174.254.68.184) | Report this post to a Moderator

CutlassJim
poop load of room
1799/2000
1788/2000
935/1000
912/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1020357 posted 09/23/11 07:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting SSGdave:

Quoting Muskrat:

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.




*Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE*
Yeah, I've done it and I'll share. It's requires some very simple machine work BUT to adapt these camshafts is actually quite simple. I stumbled on to the simularities of the non MiVEC CT9A camshaft while at work (I'm a Mitsu Technician on the civilian side) so, after taking some measurements and then checking out the cam spec's, I had a machinist buddy move the camshaft's cam gear pins to the same location as the DSM/GVR4 cams using that 1st lob as a reference point. Finally the EVO intake camshaft had the CAS slot cut into it (Non MiVEC EVO cams have the CAS slot on the Exhaust cam) I also used the EVO 8 valve springs and retainers. After the machine work, the cams drop in the head just like any oem or aftermarket cam.
If any one is planning on doing this I must remind you... To get the real benefit of these camshafts you must install them in the correct orientation. The EVO intake and exhaust cam have different spec's.

Ok price... I was given 2 sets of EVO 8 camshafts for free. I also bought a set from eBay for $50
My machinist buddy charged me $40 to modify all 3 sets.
How's that for cost effective?

Now here is the funny part, I built that engine 4 years ago and it sat in storage this whole time. I recently installed that EVO 8 cam engine into 1855/2000. So I've been sitting on this information for quite some time *sorry guys*

Impressions: I have driven many different incarnations of the 4G63 engine, from completely stock to extreme modification (dsm/gvr/csm/evo) and I will tell you, these cams on 14b 11psi are noticeable, these cams on a14b at 16/17psi are noticeable. Power delivery from 4k-7.5k rpm is improved vs normal cams. Considering the price, these cams are worth it.

Once I finish the engine completely I would love to dyno it. I'm very curious as to the results. I would not be surprised if max output is not much over oem spec (respectively) BUT when and how the car makes power is much more refined. It's one of those "car should of came this way" type deals.

Bottom line, I built a Daly Driver (my version) and these cams are exactly what I wanted. It idles like stock and improves the powerband AND in certian the car is still going to pass CA emissions.




I can back all of this. I have 8 cams in my 2G piston/head engine with 8 cam gears and a slot machined into the exhaust cam (cams swapped) and on a 16G at 26psi the power from 4k up was much improved over a stock cam. I also ran Evo 9 valves and springs/retainers.



ALL DSM's are advanced and ALL Evo's retarded
I love my crazy mother!!!

Posts: 1531 | From: Manchester, NH | Member Since: 07/17/06 | IP: (71.181.57.202) | Report this post to a Moderator

kaptainballistik
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027824 posted 10/21/11 09:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ive just stumbled across this!

Ive got a VR4 rallycar with the RS cams ( and the 7.8:1 CR pistons! ) and a small 16g with a restrictor.

So basically I can mod the CAS slot on the Mill and they should work? For me the 262's ( Evo8 MR cams ) are exactly what I need. And i have access to a set.

and the car lives at a toolmakers workshop so machining isnt an issue



Throttle.....Thats an on off switch isnt it?


Edited by kaptainballistik (10/21/11 09:46 PM)

Posts: 70 | From: Sydney, NSW | Member Since: 01/20/09 | IP: (161.43.225.210) | Report this post to a Moderator

Okayplayer
Member +
1968/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027849 posted 10/21/11 10:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm jumping on this bandwagon too. I just stumbled across a set from an evo8 for $25! I have a good machinist that will do the cas slot too. Bingo bango.



My car eats turbos
1991 Galant VR4 (1968/2000 NB)
2006 Galant SE
1986 Chevy C10

Posts: 255 | From: Denver, CO | Member Since: 01/14/10 | IP: (75.71.188.11) | Report this post to a Moderator

3rdstrikedsm
Now mandatory for Wendy's Chili to come with cheese


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027872 posted 10/22/11 12:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evo 8 mr cams are the exact same as gsr cams here in the states and if you wan't to use eco 8 cams then just get fidenza cam gears which are drilled for dsm and evo so no need to move the dowel pin.



1994 supra 6spd 612whp and more to come soon!
1995.5 Audi s6 Vi-pec powered!

Posts: 3402 | From: 32159, FL | Member Since: 02/18/08 | IP: (67.8.240.186) | Report this post to a Moderator

Happy Birthday Diego
Mad Hatter Suite Touche Debackle Guage filled by Justin
1309/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027873 posted 10/22/11 12:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good score.... makes me think of things down the road later



"I love blackjack. But I'm not addicted to gambling. I'm addicted to sitting in a semi circle."

91 nile black vr4, 1309/2000


Edited by Diego (10/22/11 12:17 AM)

Posts: 2132 | From: In a van down by the river, Io... | Member Since: 12/09/07 | IP: (76.25.120.127) | Report this post to a Moderator

Okayplayer
Member +
1968/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027874 posted 10/22/11 12:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 3rdstrikedsm:

Evo 8 mr cams are the exact same as gsr cams here in the states and if you wan't to use eco 8 cams then just get fidenza cam gears which are drilled for dsm and evo so no need to move the dowel pin.



Touche, but, I can get this done for $Free.99, which is a bit cheaper than cam gears. I am putting all the evo parts on my car that will make benefit. Evo FMIC, MAF, injectors, knock sensor, and ECU. Add to that list the cams. I like the evo8 path, seems to be pretty profitable with parts that can be had for relatively little investment. If there were a good way to throw the turbo on it, I would do it too, but I think I will stick with good ole tried and true E316G.



My car eats turbos
1991 Galant VR4 (1968/2000 NB)
2006 Galant SE
1986 Chevy C10

Posts: 255 | From: Denver, CO | Member Since: 01/14/10 | IP: (75.71.188.11) | Report this post to a Moderator

dewman
searches...with eyes closed


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027876 posted 10/22/11 12:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
whaddya think the 'E' stands for ::trololololol::

Posts: 1053 | From: AR | Member Since: 08/30/04 | IP: (206.255.64.59) | Report this post to a Moderator

Okayplayer
Member +
1968/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027932 posted 10/22/11 12:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Lol, but I'm talking evo 8 junk not just evo 3. I wonder about the rear LSD. I've seen one for sale on CL for a while. I don't know if it will work, but that would be cool.



My car eats turbos
1991 Galant VR4 (1968/2000 NB)
2006 Galant SE
1986 Chevy C10

Posts: 255 | From: Denver, CO | Member Since: 01/14/10 | IP: (75.71.188.11) | Report this post to a Moderator

Okayplayer
Member +
1968/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1027939 posted 10/22/11 12:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting CutlassJim:

I can back all of this. I have 8 cams in my 2G piston/head engine with 8 cam gears and a slot machined into the exhaust cam (cams swapped) and on a 16G at 26psi the power from 4k up was much improved over a stock cam. I also ran Evo 9 valves and springs/retainers.



What benefit did you get from swapping the intake and exhaust cams?



My car eats turbos
1991 Galant VR4 (1968/2000 NB)
2006 Galant SE
1986 Chevy C10

Posts: 255 | From: Denver, CO | Member Since: 01/14/10 | IP: (75.71.188.11) | Report this post to a Moderator

kaptainballistik
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028010 posted 10/22/11 07:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
The MR cams are certainly of a longer duration, Just from the cam shape .



Throttle.....Thats an on off switch isnt it?

Posts: 70 | From: Sydney, NSW | Member Since: 01/20/09 | IP: (119.225.175.83) | Report this post to a Moderator


Pages: 1 | 2
Previous thread Next thread

Extra information
0 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Galant VR4.org Moderator:  curtis, steve, atc250r, jcgalntvr4-244, cheekychimp, jepherz, Rausch, toybreaker 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Thread views: 21984

Rate this thread


News & Events: News | Events
Galant VR-4: Newbies | General VR4 Discussions | Technical Discussions | How To and Info Archive
Marketplace: Parts For Sale | Cars For Sale | Good Guys | Bad Guys
Community: Members' Showcase

Contact Us | Privacy statement GalantVR-4.org

Generated in 0.138 seconds in which 0.058 seconds were spent on a total of 14 queries. Turbo powered.



Hertz's Galant VR-4 Page