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Timing Belt Area Noise


engiekev
Junior Member
367/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232560 posted 10/17/16 11:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've been troubleshooting a loud whining noise coming from the timing belt area, and I'm looking for some advice from those with a similar experience.

The noise is constant, whining and high pitched. Increases in pitch with RPM, audible at idle. I've tried using a stethoscope to isolate and haven't had any smoking guns yet. The timing belt appears to be in good shape.

So far, I have attempted, with no change in the noise:

-Removing timing belt plastic covers
-Removing waterpump/alternator/PS pulleys and belts
-Replacing timing belt tensioner and re-timing
-Replacing timing belt tensioner and idler pulley and re-timing

Would the oil pump be the next thing to check? The drive pump sprocket nut does not appear to be loose.

I'll post a video shortly.



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X

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tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232564 posted 10/17/16 12:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's going to be the bearings. Could be the water pump, a/c, alternator or idler pulleys. Get yourself a stethoscope to help determine which it is.


Edited by tektic (10/17/16 12:31 PM)

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engiekev
Junior Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232565 posted 10/17/16 12:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Still makes the noise with water pump, a/c, alternator disconnected.

Idler and tensioner pulleys are both brand new, makes the same noise as it did with the old ones, which were in good shape.

Will try again with a stethoscope and get a video of the noise.



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X


Edited by engiekev (10/17/16 12:50 PM)

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (172.68.58.39) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232567 posted 10/17/16 01:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I assume your BS's are deleted? If not, could be the bearings for them. If they are, I would look at the oil pump. I would hope you used the Mitsu kit for the BS delete for the lower BS.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232568 posted 10/17/16 01:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
oil pump..



138/2000 - BG - Dorothy

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engiekev
Junior Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232570 posted 10/17/16 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting thomcasey:

I assume your BS's are deleted? If not, could be the bearings for them. If they are, I would look at the oil pump. I would hope you used the Mitsu kit for the BS delete for the lower BS.




They appear to be deleted, though I have no idea if the previous owner did it correctly. Looks like they left the front shaft in, but no way to tell if they used the stubby shaft.

Will likely be pulling the front case to inspect.

Got a good video of it, working on getting it posted.



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X


Edited by engiekev (10/17/16 01:28 PM)

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engiekev
Junior Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232575 posted 10/17/16 02:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Video up here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=zQhtyVCcU6A



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (172.68.58.39) | Report this post to a Moderator

engiekev
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232583 posted 10/17/16 05:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Another question, I've never heard 90 straight-cut gears like that, could they just be a noisy set?



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (172.68.58.39) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232608 posted 10/18/16 06:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sounds like either they left the rear shaft in and the bearings are getting ready to seize (my 2nd oldest son's talon had the rear BS bearing going out, sounded the same) or the oil pump is very worn. Either way, there should be sparkles in the oil.

Also a possibility, how is the timing belt tension? A belt that is too tight can sound like this.

Quoting engiekev:

Video up here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=zQhtyVCcU6A





Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)


Edited by thomcasey (10/18/16 06:48 AM)

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engiekev
Junior Member
367/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232610 posted 10/18/16 08:25 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No visible shavings or flake in the oil.

I've re-timed it 3 times now, using the special tool and beam torque wrench. Worth a shot going a little looser, I'll give that a go and see if it changes.



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (172.68.58.39) | Report this post to a Moderator

tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232630 posted 10/18/16 05:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry I didn't read the whole post before my response. The steathasope may still help but I would pull and inspect the pump.

Posts: 1355 | From: ronkonkoma, ny | Member Since: 12/19/12 | IP: (74.71.70.250) | Report this post to a Moderator

strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
1280/2000
1135/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232665 posted 10/20/16 08:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Before going through the trouble of loosening it, check the hydraulic tensioner to see if the tension is set correctly (measure the piston protrusion). No sense in risking some bent valves with a loose timing belt just to see what happens.
My guess is on point with Thom. Oil pump or balance shaft bearing. Good luck
-Ryan

Quoting engiekev:

No visible shavings or flake in the oil.

I've re-timed it 3 times now, using the special tool and beam torque wrench. Worth a shot going a little looser, I'll give that a go and see if it changes.





Ryan C.
1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock - 88k miles
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

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engiekev
Junior Member
367/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1239075 posted 08/15/17 04:54 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Following up on this:

It was the oil pump. The engine was not put together properly, they had cut the balance shafts instead of using stubby shafts, and the driven gear was eating into the pump housing. Threw a new pump on it, re-timed, and the noise is 100% gone.

Here is a follow up video, with some gratuitous revving for good measure:
#367/1000 Post Surgery & Exhaust testing



1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (68.55.168.228) | Report this post to a Moderator

mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1239133 posted 08/18/17 10:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cutting the BS isn't a problem, provided it was done right and the hole was properly plugged in the shaft.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster

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engiekev
Junior Member
367/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1239197 posted 08/23/17 10:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
It was not properly done. I don't know the root cause of why the pump started to eat itself, supposedly the motor was "rebuilt". The noise got consistently worse as I drove it. The bearings on the bottom end looked fine, so its not an oil starvation or pressure issue.

Point of this post: do not trust any regular machinist without 4g63 experience to build your motor.

Pictures for your enjoyment













1992 Galant VR4 #637/1000
1999 Eclipse GSX
2006 Saab 9-2X


Edited by engiekev (08/23/17 10:26 AM)

Posts: 83 | From: Clarkston, MI | Member Since: 03/12/15 | IP: (68.55.168.228) | Report this post to a Moderator


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