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ECMLINK Tuning advice.


kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229323 posted 06/17/16 08:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hi Guys,
I am new to tuning, but am a good student. I have read all the ECMLINK wiki guides and other popular published tuning tutorials.
I have attached a link to logs from my latest round of tuning runs.

Dropbox link for log files

1 x idle log
1 x 5th gear pull from 2000rpm WOT
1 x 1st gear through 4th gear WOT

MOD LIST
I have a 1991 JDM Evo 0 with stock bottom end. 144.000kms (90,000miles)
The head has been ported and polished, with freshened valve seats, valves and some BC1100 valve springs and ARP head studs. (Stock cams)
B16G, evo8 MAF, 3" custom cold air intake straight to turbo inlet, Turbosmart BOV. (Stock large frontmount intercooler similar to the early evo's)
560 evo8 injectors, re-wired walbro 255, sard FPR set at 44psi base pressure. I run 98 octane pump gas (New Zealand is good like that).
Base timing set at 5 BTDC. Boost leak tested to 25psi leak free. All maintenance and servicing up to date (Filters, timing components etc...)
Am running ECMLINK Full V3

I have a couple of questions.

1/ Are there any glaringly obvious issues with the current setup? This is really just a sense check of the work I have done so far. Airflow and Fuel setup looks good to me but would like a second opinion.

2/ TIMING
My initial approach to timing was to use the conservative evo 8 tables as a starting point. They got me up and running, but at 20psi boost the car felt flat and lifeless throughout the rev range. So I then decided to go back the the stock (1G) timing tables. Due to the aggressive nature of the stock tables I lowered all cells in the table by 2 degrees and took a few more degrees out of the high load areas at 2500 - 3500rpm. I also lowered the boost to 13psi at the same time. This really woke the car up and it felt strong everywhere. Even better than at 20psi with the evo8 timing tables!

As it stands I get very little knock when doing WOT runs as you can see in the logs, but at part/mid throttle I can sometimes get very high counts that will retard timing by up to 10 degrees, this occurs at the 2500-3000 rpm range and Loads of 1.0-1.4. It isn't consistent, sometimes it will drive through these areas with no knock other times it will hit 100 counts and pull almost all the timing. As a test I took 6 degrees of timing out of the timingmaxoct table through the ranges mentioned above and it made no difference to the knock behavior. The confusing part for me is that I can pull from 2000 rpm in 5th all the way to 7k with no knock in the same areas of the timingmaxoct table?! My thoughts are that it is phantom Knock but would like your knowledgeable thoughts.

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229337 posted 06/18/16 03:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I forgot to mention that a compression test showed 140 across all 4 cylinders.

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229339 posted 06/18/16 07:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
have you checked your knock sensor?? is all the goo still in it.? all mine was in my sensor and then i pulled the sensor out and it had leaked out the center hole in the threads. replaced and all good.



138/2000

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229346 posted 06/18/16 08:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I only looked at the 1-4 pull:

Your log looks great. Your WB and AFRs are lining up perfectly, so good work there. Target AFR is right where it should be on pump gas, and fuel tuning overall looks good.

Your timing is already fairly aggressive for pump, albeit it's 98 octane. You'd be hard pressed to get away with your current timing curve on 93.

Your airflow numbers are indicative of low boost (were you on 13psi in that log as well?). You can probably squeeze another 4-5 lb/min out of that B16G, but your IDCs are already topping at 80% on your current tune, so you really don't have much room for more boost. You could bump your fuel pressure a bit, and run those Evo 560s slightly above 80% safely to get some more room, but ideally you need a bigger injector.

The only real issue I see is with your TPS. The ECMLink TPS adjustment feature has become a pet peeve of mine. Nearly every log I look at, somebody is using it incorrectly. I strongly believe if you need to adjust the TPS offset or TPS scale more than a value of 2 on either scale, you need to go back and make a manual adjustment to your TPS. You are at a 9 offset, on a 101% scale. That tells me the natural sweep of your TPS sensor is out of wack, and you need to go manually adjust it. On my personal cars, I'm happy when this feature is either disabled, or I'm at 0 and 100%...But that's just me.

Also, why do you have user-defined settings enabled for the EGR solenoid? Are you using this for something?

Regarding your intermittent part throttle knock issue, personally, I'd just ignore it for the most part. I've experienced similar issues with nearly every DSM I've ever owned...Even after installing brand new knock sensors. IIRC, have ECMlink configured to ignore knock below like 35% TPS and under 3k RPM. Now, if you can consistently recreate the knock, then I'd try and address it. But, if it seems to come and go randomly with no rhyme or reason, I'd make a mental note of when it sometimes happens, and configure ECMlink to ignore it.

Going forward to improve your tune, I'd stick with the fuel and timing tables you have, and try to add in more boost until you see knock, or your IDCs rise up too high (whichever occurs first). In the interim, I'd be on the lookout for bigger injectors if you want to continue to make more power.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD


Edited by GSTwithPSI (06/18/16 08:53 AM)

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229368 posted 06/18/16 07:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You have a JDM VR4?

If so, would you mind dropping me a PM or posting here with the ECU you are using? I tried using the DSMLink v.2 in my JDM VR4 and had (still have) various issues which may or may not be ECU/compatibility related. If you wouldn't mind letting me know what is working for you, I'd really like to copy you setup to get a base known working solution in place. If I still have issues at that stage, my problem obviously isn't ECU related and this would really help me to chase gremlins and maybe even get my own car back on the road.

Paul



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (06/18/16 07:19 PM)

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kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229377 posted 06/19/16 02:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting transparentdsm:

have you checked your knock sensor?? is all the goo still in it.? all mine was in my sensor and then i pulled the sensor out and it had leaked out the center hole in the threads. replaced and all good.




No, I haven't. I have read that a lot of people change them with no effect on the knock characteristics, so thought I would ask the questions first and see what the .org members had to say. It may be cheap peace of mind in a 25 year old car. I'll add it to the list of to do's.

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229378 posted 06/19/16 02:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting cheekychimp:

You have a JDM VR4?

If so, would you mind dropping me a PM or posting here with the ECU you are using? I tried using the DSMLink v.2 in my JDM VR4 and had (still have) various issues which may or may not be ECU/compatibility related. If you wouldn't mind letting me know what is working for you, I'd really like to copy you setup to get a base known working solution in place. If I still have issues at that stage, my problem obviously isn't ECU related and this would really help me to chase gremlins and maybe even get my own car back on the road.

Paul




PM'd

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229379 posted 06/19/16 03:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hi Brett, I was hoping you would respond. I have read some of your other tuning advice and get the impression you know a thing or two.

Thanks for the sense check I though it was right but really don't know where things should be with AFR's or Timing numbers. I was just relying on my interpretation of the 1g 2g and EVO stock tables and what the interweb could tell me, and it often gives out mixed messages.

The boost was at 13psi for that 1-4 pull. Im running 44psi base FP with the 560 injectors, the IDC makes me curious about Nate's 11 sec recipe thread, He dyno'd 430 at the wheels with 550's and a B16G using a VPC! I wonder what his IDC's were? We may never know.

When I used the TPS adjust function I had the same reservations as yourself, why use electronic trickery to simulate a mechanical motion. I just never got back to it. I'll add it to my TO DO list.

My JDM model does not have an EGR system, The EGR solenoid output from ECMlink just happens to activate the Cyclone manifold butterfly solenoid. So I can use the custom settings to activate the butterfly that opens the second set of manifold runners. I've read that 4100rpm is the sweet spot but my thinking is that once full boost is hit they should be opened to allow maximum airflow from that point on. Which is why they are set to open at 3300rpm.

The knock was the only thing that really confused me, otherwise I might have had this tune sorted months ago. (I've been changing stock fuel and timing tables a lot in an effort to eliminate it. I'll take your advice and up the knock threshold numbers. I changed the plugs from BPR6ES to BPR7ES during this process and I could not see any "salt and pepper" spots on the ceramic insulator of the old plugs that might have indicated that knocking had occurred.
I have them gapped at .028 would it be worth closing that up a bit?

I'm on the lookout for some 750's or 850's if anyone has a good set going. The 560's were a cheap gap filler to get me into tuning. My goal for the car is to max out the B16G with a target of 400WHP and an 11 sec pass. I know that is pushing it but its the goal.

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

citymunky
Fake Title
733/2000
1505/2000
923/2000
832/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229397 posted 06/19/16 09:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting kumfasa:



PM'd




Can you shoot me a PM as well? I just picked up a JDM galant and I'm looking into running ECMLink again.



1990 MMC GVR-4
733/2000 (R.I.P. TurboRen) Sold.
1505/2000 (Loves strippers) Sold.
832/2000 (parts car) R.I.P.
923/2000 (my 1st) R.I.P.

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FlyingEagle Galant VR4.org Moderator
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229399 posted 06/19/16 09:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just for reference to anyone reading this abroad. Our octane rating in Canada, the USA and brazil is listed differently from New Zealand.


Wikipedia click

"Because of the 8 to 12 octane number difference between RON and MON noted above, the AKI shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 6 octane numbers lower than elsewhere in the world for the same fuel.

United States: in the US octane rating is displayed in AKI. In most areas, the standard grades are 87, 89-90 and 91-94 AKI.
New Zealand: 91 RON "Regular" and 95 RON "Premium" are both widely available. 98 RON is available instead of 95 RON at some (BP, Mobil, Gull) service stations in larger urban areas."

So, 87-91 AKI in the US becomes 91-95 RON for New Zealand. So, 98 RON if direct numeric translation works, would post at roughly +/- 94 AKI ... or 94 Octane to those stateside.

We have 94 AKI posted fuel here in Canada, just fewer stations have them. The 94 octane contains no ethanol from what I have read and is only offered by Suncor/Petro Canada stations.

Interesting tidbit about Petro Canada gas mixes ... just to confuse the layman with a gas pump handle poised to fill his tank ...

"Not all petro-canada's are the same. Petro-Canada stations that DO NOT have ultra 94 have 91 grade gasoline with no ethanol. Petro-Canada stations that DO have ultra 94 have 91 grade gas WITH ethanol. Ethanol is inferior to gasoline in terms of energy content by volume. A tank of pure 91 with no ethanol will get better mileage than a tank of e-blended 91 (if both were driven exactly the same)."

Emissions be damned, you be the judge.

Anywho, just putting this out there because I was wondering if Brett was on the nose with "98 octane" and thinking it was 94 AKI like stateside. Wonder what the Kiwi blend for 98 RON is?



C53A 1 of the ~1500


Edited by FlyingEagle (06/19/16 09:42 PM)

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kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229400 posted 06/19/16 09:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting citymunky:

Quoting kumfasa:



PM'd




Can you shoot me a PM as well? I just picked up a JDM galant and I'm looking into running ECMLink again.




I think what I'll do is create a "HOW TO" on installing ECMlink in a JDM car. Saves me creating the same story many times and might be useful for others. I'll get onto it this week.

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FlyingEagle Galant VR4.org Moderator
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229403 posted 06/19/16 09:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^ Many people would appreciate that!



C53A 1 of the ~1500

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229407 posted 06/19/16 10:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting FlyingEagle:


Anywho, just putting this out there because I was wondering if Brett was on the nose with "98 octane" and thinking it was 94 AKI like stateside. Wonder what the Kiwi blend for 98 RON is?




No, I wasn't aware the rest of the world rates octane different than the US does, but I'm not surprised. Thanks for that.

I assumed he had legit 98 octane (like = to US 98 octane). I'd say based on his timing curve, he's running something at least better than 93. Although, the low boost could account for the lack of knock on an aggressive timing curve.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229410 posted 06/20/16 04:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting FlyingEagle:

^^^ Many people would appreciate that!




I have added a HOW TO post to the forum. Just waiting on a MOD to approve it.

Posts: 125 | From: Tauranga, New Zealand | Member Since: 02/28/15 | IP: (58.28.212.87) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229416 posted 06/20/16 09:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So in a nut shell based on your how-to, you didn't really have to do anything special. The V3 chip was plug and play, and the car ran fine after install?

Are the JDM ECUs already socketed, or did you have it socketed by someone?



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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kumfasa
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229419 posted 06/20/16 12:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That's right. It was plug and play.
Based on the ecu pin out diagrams I'd think for a non evolution spec JDM car it might require some wiring.

Part of the work in getting the car up to spec was to have the caps replaced on the ecu main board, I had it socketed at the same time.

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1229492 posted 06/21/16 05:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Brett,

Pretty sure the ECU he used is the stock USDM one. Some JDM ECUs are already socketed. I've tried a variety and was still having issues. Time to get hold of a stock US ECU and try it with V.3, even if the issues remain it's something else to remove from the equation and that will get me a step closer to my car running right.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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