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Upgraded Camshaft and Base Timing


GEDengineering
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225004 posted 03/02/16 10:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Looking for personal experience and advice on whether advancing the base timing above 5 degrees helps improve idle with aftermarket cam shafts. I am running BC 272/272, idle set at 850 rpm and iac hovers around 35 steps at idle (ruuning Ecmlink v3 lite). The car doesn't stall and doesn't have surge put you can really feel the lob of the cams at idle. I am looking for ways to smooth things out a bit.

Thank you in advance,
Glenn

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tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225010 posted 03/02/16 11:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Degreeing your cam shafts may help. It is not advisable to blindly change your base timing.

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GEDengineering
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225015 posted 03/02/16 12:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have the ability to check the change in timing via a timing light and ECM Link, just would like to know what others are doing about the situation

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marvinmadman
Senior Member
136/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225024 posted 03/02/16 02:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Raise idle?



1982/2000 sold
1263/2000 parts
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tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225025 posted 03/02/16 02:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you raise the base timing it will add that amount to your advance in every cell of the computer. If you have link you can try to add timing at idle. Check to see that the base timing is set correctly but leave it at 5.

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GEDengineering
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225026 posted 03/02/16 03:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The base it set correctly at 5 degrees. I have look at the DA tables of link I think I am going to adjust those values a bit and also lean out the idle to see it I can improve things. If you have any other suggestions I am open to hear them.

Thanks
Glenn

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AllanL
Heal and Toe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225028 posted 03/02/16 03:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
leaning it more at idle may make it worse...

as said, raising the idle may improve it a bit...

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swe_gvr4_1991
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225060 posted 03/03/16 07:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I also have 272/272 and I idle at 1100 RPM to keep things happy.
If I idle at 850 the whole car shakes. These vibrations may look, feel, and sound cool but it will kill parts in the long run.
So +1 on raising the idle.



.. KiM H ..
Galant VR-4 1991. Gulf spec.
Author of Swede Density software - REAL speed density for 1G's and GVR4's - Videos

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GEDengineering
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225069 posted 03/03/16 11:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Going to bump the idle a bit to see if it will help, cause the vibrations and shacking is really uncomfortable. . Just to let you guys know that adjusting the timing some doesn't improve the situation.

Thanks

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strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
1280/2000
1135/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225071 posted 03/03/16 11:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you still have balance shafts? If so, are they out of phase?

BC cams seem to have poor quality control when it comes to alignment. Were the cams degreed when install? If not, you may want to do so. You are chasing your tail without knowing if everything is timed correctly.

My vr4 (built 2.0, no balance shafts, poly mounts x4) idles at 850rpms with comp 272s no problem. Minimal vibrations compared to my friend's completely stock vr4.

Not everyone degrees their cams. I did not for this car, but definitely would if I had an abnormality such as what you are describing. Being that they are BC cams, to me, makes them highly suspect.



1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

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biglady112
or what
359/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225074 posted 03/03/16 12:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Raise the idle. 1100-1500. Problem solved. Degreeing your cams to zero according to what the manufacturer asks for will make a difference as well and put your timing events at the correct time.



I GIVE ZERO FUCKS. I HATE YOU ALL.


Edited by biglady112 (03/03/16 12:39 PM)

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thecman02
too lazy to look
580/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225076 posted 03/03/16 12:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you have adjustable camshaft gears. Assuming everything else that has been said above hasn't helped; I've had good luck removing overlap to increase idle quality and even help on top end performance.



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AllanL
Heal and Toe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225091 posted 03/03/16 05:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^ as he said...

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ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
186/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225095 posted 03/03/16 08:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Raising the idle will help big time with the idle before I fully built my motor I had BC280 intake and exhaust. I've read so much stuff about them I sold them for HKS cams first I had 264/272 then change my setup and went 272/272 HKS.

Didn't degree them in and slapped raised the idle to 1000rpm and it help with the vibration. Your pretty wise to understand playing with the timing will help with the idle. Verify that your are at 5 degrees by setting idle to 850rpms on link, yes it will idle like shit don't worry about it.

Then ground timing through link take timing light and verify a base timing of 5 degrees with your timing light. If it's out obviously adjust cam angle sensor till your there. Once you verified timing uncheck timing and set you idle to where you want it buy using the cells. What also helps is no idle problems like surging or vacuum leaks and make sure your TPS voltage is dialed in correctly.

Once all the above is done and checks out set idle to 1000 rpms and see if your happy with it. As long as the wideband is reading what you have calibrated you should be good to go. Then you can start advancing or retarding timing to help your vibration at idle track the cells to know which ones to change, you'll probably have to change the nearby cells of the highlighted ones to get it a bit smoother.

It's not hard to do just time consuming but the reward is worth it once done right.

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strokin4dr
fighting them with a large needle
1280/2000
1135/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225101 posted 03/03/16 10:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Most of these replies are sounding like bandaids for the real problem. No need to have the idle that high if everything else is set correctly.



1908- sold and missed.
1280- 2.3, FP 35R, E85, etc.
1135- 100% stock
'93 Mirage hatch- 4g63, AWD, etc (hoarding for build)

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GEDengineering
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225114 posted 03/04/16 09:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have verified the timing is 5 degrees with a light. I did a boost leak test and found a lot of air escaping from the valve cover and dip stick. I did a leak down test yesterday and I have about 10% across the board. I think the rings or guide are going bad. I have not done a compression test but I will once I get a functioning compression tester.

Let me know what you guys think,
Glenn

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biglady112
or what
359/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225125 posted 03/04/16 01:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Having a high idle also promotes better oil pressure at idle naturally. We have one car that idles quite high to maintain both hot and cold oil pressures as a "normal" idle from his engines see very, very low pressure at idle. We verified both with a mechanical gauge and his electronic gauge. I can deal with a high idle of it means not chewing up bearings prematurely.

So there are benfits to a high idle.



I GIVE ZERO FUCKS. I HATE YOU ALL.

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marvinmadman
Senior Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1225134 posted 03/04/16 02:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Better voltage from the alternator as well



1982/2000 sold
1263/2000 parts
136/1000 work n progress
08 ZX14
10 Ford Flex TT/AWD
05 Galant GTS

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JoeDaddy0
Junior Member
512/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226378 posted 04/04/16 08:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I am using 268 cams and ER set at 900. I can't see a fairly smooth idle less than mine for a longer cam. You should probably be at 950 for smooth idle.


Edited by JoeDaddy0 (04/04/16 08:25 PM)

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