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Car Overheated

GSTwithPSI

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I really hate this damn car. I just can't catch a break. I was driving home and I guess the car pissed out a bunch of coolant. Temps hit 267 according to V3. Car was running fine when I shut it down, but I could definitely hear coolant boiling.

Anybody got their car this hot? The temp gauge wasn't in the red yet, but it's obviously not good to get it that hot. What's a BAD BAD sh*t starts warping and melting temp reading? All I can do at this point is fix the leak, refill the system and see how the car runs. I'm confident I dodged a bullet here, but just wanted to see if I could get some reassurance from a few of you guys. I'll take anything positive I can get at this point...
 

dandanger

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Year ago I had my alternator belt snap at motorway at high speed. I was forced to drive a few miles, and at the moment I didn't remember that belt also rotated the waterpump...well after some time I noticed my temp gauge was at full red, immediately took the car to side of road and shut down engine. Coolant was boiling and leaked out of the reservoir/pipe. Got the car towed, changed the belt and filled coolant, no problems or symptoms appeared, and have drove thousands after that.
 

James

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If the gauge didn't get into the red I'd say you're safe. Fix and report
 

turbowop

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Don't pay attention to the gauge on the dash, as it's horribly inaccurate. I'd be worried about ECMlink saying that the ECU temp sender was seeing 260+. Did it overheat due to the leak, or did it spring a leak due to overheating?
 

mitsuturbo

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I concur. Factory gauge sucks. IF you happen to run low on water, it won't show any increase in WATER temp, because there is no water to report.

I had an engine drop all coolant while going 80mph on the highway one night, and i never even noticed... until the car died. sh*t got so hot it melted the plastic off the plugwires (i never was able to get the spark plugs out) and warped the head so bad the cams wouldnt turn properly in it. The temp gauge never showed significantly higher than normal. The lower radiator hose had burst at the lowest point.
 

GSTwithPSI

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Quoting turbowop:
Don't pay attention to the gauge on the dash, as it's horribly inaccurate. I'd be worried about ECMlink saying that the ECU temp sender was seeing 260+. Did it overheat due to the leak, or did it spring a leak due to overheating?



Actually, worse than either. I tightened the suspected leaky hose, and refilled the system. Fired the car up and it ran great. Immediately after I started the car, I took off the radiator cap so I could make sure coolant was moving and the thermostat was opening. As soon as I pulled off the cap, cold coolant shot out. FML.

There's only one reason cold pressurized coolant comes out of the radiator; combustion gases going where they shouldn't. I unplugged the injectors and removed all the plugs. I ran a compression test on each cylinder, and got exactly 135 across the board? Not at all what I was expecting. In fact, I did it twice, just to make sure. I usually only remove the plug on the cylinder I'm compression testing, and leave the others in. But this time I didn't for two reasons, first being I didn't want an incorrect reading in case two cylinders were leaking into each other, and second because all I was looking for was an inconsistent cylinder. With zero luck on the compression test, I installed one spark plug at a time. Each time I put a plug in, I cranked the car over and watched for coolant to shoot out of the radiator. All cylinders were normal except for #1. I installed the plug in #1 and cranked it over. Coolant shot out faithfully every rotation of the crank. It's clear #1 is leaking pressure, but where? And more puzzling, how did I get EXACTLY 135 from each cylinder during the compression test? Is it because all the plugs were removed when I did the compression test? And I swear the car was running perfectly last night while it was overheating, and also this morning when I started it up and found the problem? How is that possible? Also, I used the little rubber nose to seal the cylinder and shoot pressurized air into cylinder #1 after I figured out it was leaking. While shooting air into the cylinder, I looked for bubbles in the radiator and saw absolutely nothing. All the symptoms just don't seem to add up. Cylinder #1 should read low on the compression test, the car should run like sh*t, and I should definitely see bubbles in the radiator when forcing compressed air into the cylinder.

This is the reason the car overheated last night, and also the reason the radiator hose was leaking. The cooling system couldn't take combustion pressure, and it had to go somewhere. I'm just curious why this happened. I checked the block and head with a straight edge to make sure they were true. Maybe my sealing surfaces just weren't clean enough. Either way, I guess I'm doing a head gasket job. I also need to replace the balance shaft tensioner pulley. I had to reuse the one from my donor motor, and it's squeaking now, and has to be replaced.

My question is, where is the cylinder pushing air into the cooling system? Only cylinder #1 is leaking. It has to be going into one of the passages between the block and head right? Any other guesses on where the cylinder is leaking, and how this other stuff isn't adding up?
WP_000744.jpg
 

FlyingEagle

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Well, other than cracking a cylinder wall (that would be pretty rare, and not likely to happen under those somewhat "normal" circumstances), the head gasket leaking should allow the possibility of coolant to drop back into the cylinder when the engine is off, not always evident but with the plugs out; it's a start. If coolant puddles on top of a piston, then you know what is happening. Without confirming or alarming you, it could still be such a small spot that only pressure is allowed out during power event, and you are not seeing anything going back the other way. I've done gaskets/heads that allowed that scenario.

It is strange that you got a proper compression reading, but considering the path of least resistance is usually the valves opening, it may stand to reason that a bubble pushing into the coolant is not a large enough resistance to make it readily evident at the point. So, no bubbles created/moving around in the rad when the other cylinders are tested with a plug in? Hmmmm. Aren't there passages in the head for coolant ? If the head had a crack, that could be a possibility. Can't magnflux a DSM head, it would be to be fluoresced/dye tested by an engine shop I suspect.
 
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Barnes

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Quoting GSTwithPSI:
I checked the block and head with a straight edge to make sure they were true.



Was this a machinist straight edge? Or a carpenters straight edge? Did you check the flatness using the specs/procedures outlined in the factory manual?
 
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GSTwithPSI

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^^^Come on Barnes is this a serious question? Neither. I used a plastic ruler from Target, and kinda just eyeballed the air gap looking for daylight. I was like, ehhh that looks good enough.



Quoting FlyingEagle:
Well, other than cracking a cylinder wall (that would be pretty rare, and not likely to happen under those somewhat "normal" circumstances), the head gasket leaking should allow the possibility of coolant to drop back into the cylinder when the engine is off, not always evident but with the plugs out; it's a start. If coolant puddles on top of a piston, then you know what is happening. Without confirming or alarming you, it could still be such a small spot that only pressure is allowed out during power event, and you are not seeing anything going back the other way. I've done gaskets/heads that allowed that scenario.

It is strange that you got a proper compression reading, but considering the path of least resistance is usually the valves opening, it may stand to reason that a bubble pushing into the coolant is not a large enough resistance to make it readily evident at the point. So, no bubbles created/moving around in the rad when the other cylinders are tested with a plug in? Hmmmm. Aren't there passages in the head for coolant ? If the head had a crack, that could be a possibility. Can't magnflux a DSM head, it would be to be fluoresced/dye tested by an engine shop I suspect.



These are all very good points that I hadn't considered. Thanks for the input.
 
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Barnes

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Now I'm not entirely sure how serious you are being.

Are you going to check the top of the block, and the bottom of the head with a machinist straight edge (flat bar) or not? Are you going to use feeler gauges of the proper size per the specs of the factory manual? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If you don't, you are throwing away time and money. 265 degrees is a very high temp to get the engine. Accurately checking for a warped head or block is a must.
 

GSTwithPSI

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images

Ok Barnes, let me lay this out for you. You get one of those sweet plastic rulers from the office supply section in Target. Make sure it's green though, because the other colors don't work as well. You buy it, take it home, and then proceed to get real drunk. Then, you go out back and lay it on the head however you want. Sometimes I check the side the cams are on, depending on how I'm feeling. After the ruler is on, you just kinda get down at eye level, and look for some light passing between the green ruler and the surface of whatever you are checking. If it's hard to see, don't worry, it's just your buzz wearing off. Spec is: tiny amount - little bit of light. Any more than a little bit of light, and you gots to take that thing to a shop and get it grinded or something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I read somewhere on the interwebs though, that some folks check it like this: Using a machinist rule, I laid the straight edge across the head in 6 or so places kinda like so:
0900c152800496a0.gif


Then, I used a feeler gauge size .0025" (spec .0020"-.008") and tried to slide it between the machinist rule and the surface of the head. It went between in a few places, so I moved up to a .0035". It wouldn't go under anywhere, so, I called it good.

I repeated this same process for the block, (spec for the block being a little different .0020"-.004") and came up with the same outcome, no warpage on either surface.

Either way will work, but I prefer the first one.
 
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Barnes

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Jesus Christ. Answer the the following answer with a YES or NO question if you are capable of such a thing:

When measuring cylinder head and block flatness, did you use a machinist flat bar and feeler gauges?
 
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LIV4PSI

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He just did in the last post, with very specific details even
 

Barnes

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He did? Actually, he posted a picture of Jackie chan and a bunch of other bullshit. Perhaps if he dispensed with the snark and garbage people could help him.
 

LIV4PSI

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Quoting Barnes:
He did?



Quoting GSTwithPSI:


Using a machinist rule, I laid the straight edge across the head in 6 or so places

Then, I used a feeler gauge size .0025" (spec .0020"-.008") and tried to slide it between the machinist rule and the surface of the head. It went between in a few places, so I moved up to a .0035". It wouldn't go under anywhere, so, I called it good.

I repeated this same process for the block, (spec for the block being a little different .0020"-.004") and came up with the same outcome, no warpage on either surface.

Either way will work, but I prefer the first one.



Actually, that's exactly what he posted
 
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Barnes

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To me it appears that he said he measured it first with a plastic ruler, but then posted how to do it the right way. The said he prefers to do it the first way, i.e. with the plastic ruler. But I can't even tell for sure, because it's a bunch of jibberish.

If GSTwithPSI had not decided to respond to me like a dipshit in the first place, this would not be a problem.

If his responses here are any indication, the car is not to blame for any of this. Just his incompetence. I tried to be helpful/contribute and he decide to squander that. I'll be keeping my eye for his part out thread when his car blows up again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

GSTwithPSI

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YES BARNES, YES, I CHECKED THE HEAD AND BLOCK FOR TRUENESS THE PROPER WAY (METHOD #2 TO BE EXACT, SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION). Barnes, if you are being serious, then it is apparent you are incapable of comprehending sarcasm. If you are just trolling me as I am you, then carry on.

When I frequent the forums here and provide feedback to others, I usually do a little research on the person first. I check out their build/restoration/problem threads if they have any. Then, I usually click on their username and pull up all their posts, and read a few of them so I can kinda gauge who I'm talking to, their experience level and what kind basic car knowledge they possess. I do this because I don't want to sound like an ass by telling them something blatantly obvious that they probably already know. Not only may it be insulting to them, but it makes you look like an ass too IMO. For example, I don't think you would tell Shep that he needs to install a clutch alignment tool before torquing down a pressure plate would you? But, unless you knew who John Shepard was, then you really wouldn't know that Shep may have actually invented the damn DSM transmission. I know that sometimes even the most experienced people miss the obvious, and it's ok to say that, but there's also a way to ask the obvious without sounding like an ass.

My point is you obviously, didn't do any do any of that. Now, on most forums, I don't take the time to check out a person either. But, on this forum where the community is small, and filled for the most part with very knowledgeable individuals, I go the extra mile not to look like an ass. Have you even seen my build thread??? I posted pics of me balancing my own rotating assembly for god's sake? I posted a picture of precision measuring tools like micrometers and such. Do you really think I was using a a carpenters rule I picked up from Home Depot to check for a warped head? Give me a break. Know your audience, and then post, or be prepared to deal with whatever comes of being Trolled for being captain obvious.
 

Barnes

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Thank you for finally answering the question.

Yes, I know what sarcasm is. Last time I checked this was a technical discussion thread. Not a great place to use sarcasm when people are trying to help you.

It also appears that you want your car to run properly. I provided helpful feedback to try and ensure this would be the case. Instead of simply answering my question like a normal person, you decided to be a smartass.

Now, of course if I know a person's technical competency I will filter certain questions/statements. However, I have no idea who you are, and how competent you are. You are not Shep. Don't even use Shep as an analogy to this situation even though your ego demands it.

And yes, it's a serious question. Why is it a serious question? Because historically there have been people on this board that have measured head/block distortion using carpenters squares, rulers, you name it. So it's a fair question. I could read ALL your posts and make an assumption about your technical competency or experience. What if you didn't know the correct method and I did not ask because I assumed you already knew? You could potentially be doing this drill all over again.

I'm sorry if I burdened you with a question in an effort to help. I'm sorry I didn't pretend I was researching to author your biography so I could carefully customize my post to match your needs.

I was going to respond with some possibilities as to why your diagnostic tests were confusing. However, to prevent the possibility that you might again feel the pain of someone underestimating your talents, I'll pass. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

GSTwithPSI

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Barnes, after my first post, you respond to a very specific technical question with the most basic and worthless suggestion ever. Then, it takes you 3 posts to comprehend sarcasm (which I'm still not confident you have grasped). And somehow you misconstrue all of this by somehow interpreting my posts as me having an big ego? I think it would be more accurate to say I was poking fun at your suggestion because I found it stupid, and you are butt hurt. Although, I appreciate the effort, and didn't really think you were a douche until now. It looks to me like your ability to write well and use proper grammar is all you have going for you. Maybe teaching English part time would suit you better than helping out in the technical section here. If the suggestion you made is your idea of "helpful feedback", I think the technical section would be better off without you. Again, just my opinion, and you are free to post where you wish. Take a look at FlyingEagle's post, which is very informative and helpful, and see if you can see the difference between actual helpful feedback, and "helpful feedback".
 

turbowop

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Jon asked you a legitimate question and you came back asking if he was serious. How do you expect people to respond when you ask for help and they try to deliver? Even when I suggested that you don't need an oilpan gasket in your other thread, since the FSM actually calls out to use RTV and people that have used the gaskets have had leak issues, you blew it off as though you knew more about it than me and the other guys making the same suggestion.

Maybe if you listened to people's advice and took their questions seriously, you wouldn't be in this boat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
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