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Timing belt problem


NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028985 posted 10/25/11 10:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
anybody know what could have caused this? (timing belt stripped where the crank sprocket is at)



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pauleyman
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1028995 posted 10/25/11 10:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I can't see what you're describing. Teeth missing? The belt got old and/or oil soaked.



Paul Lyons
24 years of mitsu
I must be nuts.

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029004 posted 10/25/11 10:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
the belt stripped at the crank sprocket. belt only had ~12k miles on it



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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Barnes
Firechicken
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029014 posted 10/25/11 11:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Couple possible causes. You'll probably find out after you pull the timing cover and t-belt. My first suspect would be oil because I see a lot of oiliness. Also, your timing cover is really messed up. There is no telling what could have gotten at your timing belt with such a gaping hole.



-Jon Barnes
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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029027 posted 10/25/11 11:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yea i shoulda added that the timing cover was all messed up, the crank pully had been rubbing on it and it was hella worn out, also there is alot of oil leaking but could that really strip a belt like that. it litterally happened in like 5 minutes.



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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pauleyman
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029046 posted 10/26/11 12:24 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Could an oily belt cause that? Without question. Any damage to the valves?



Paul Lyons
24 years of mitsu
I must be nuts.

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ggsxkid
teh UBer FAIL
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029258 posted 10/26/11 08:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yup..... if the belt gets soaked long enough it will get soft/strip the teeth. A bad coolant leak could also cause it. Now there is a possibility that you didn't bend valves. I had the same thing happen to a friend of mine while his was sitting at idle. Now to our surprise when we pulled the head no valves were bent. But most likely if you were driving while it died like that you bent valves.



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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029320 posted 10/27/11 12:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Phew, I'm glad to hear that, I had a horrible coolant leak not too long ago that could have easily soaked the belt, and I'm guilty to say I ignored it and kept putting more coolant so I wouldn't overheat. Also I'm glad to hear that my valves could possibly be ok, ill find it out tomorrow. I was at idle when it died, however I did try to turn it back on again which makes me nervous.

Today I did get it to run without any super bad noises, there is rattle but its a suspected exhaust leak, ill take video and post it later. I'm doing a compression test and leak down test tomorrow and will let u all know what's up.



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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Whoodoo
buff guys = good time but my dream is to fondle 1051
62/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029691 posted 10/28/11 01:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Trying to turn it on again is bad. When my t-belt went, my dad cranked it again and after taking the head off, there were half moons in pairs on the top of my pistons. You might have gotten lucky if you didn't hear any bad noises.



62/2k

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Barnes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029699 posted 10/28/11 01:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My friends GF had a '92 talon that had the t-belt strip off the crank sprocket. We just assumed it had wrecked valves but when we took the head off and took it to the shop it was completely fine. If we had just put a belt on it would have been fine.



-Jon Barnes
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mitsuturbo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029706 posted 10/28/11 02:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I had that happen when my oil pump seized. The belt stopped because the OP sprocket would not turn, but the crank kept spinning.. cams stopped too. I wound up having to replace my bearings, 2 bent valves, and the oil pump, after a whole lot of cleaning.

Just check and make sure everything spins like it should.



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broxma
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029832 posted 10/29/11 12:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Same thing happened to Steve's car, oil pump sprocket locked up but instead of the teeth coming off, the belt just skipped. In your case, couple than with a petroleum soaked belt and I can see the teeth giving way first. If it's any consolation, Steve's valves were also ok even after he repeatedly tried to start the car in that condition. If you get lucky and the valves are pretty close to being closed, the pistons will miss them.

/brox



I am big into recycling though and if your not into sacrifice or burnt offerings, you may want to stick with 93 octane.

/brox

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1029835 posted 10/29/11 12:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i havnt really had time to work on it this week, but ill make sure to check the oil pump and pray my valves are good



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1030606 posted 11/02/11 12:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
so i did a compression test and leak down test to see if any valves were bent. good news and bad news, valves are good. bad news, engine is still not running right.

compression was highest at 150 and lowest at 148.
leak down lowest at a 8% leak, and highest at 11% leak. - tested at 90psi, leaked down to about 80-84psi

i put my motor mount back and on and it made the engine feel a little better, however its still running real sloppy, it feels like its got fat cams and the exhaust smells like gas and when i rev the engine the whole thing shakes and makes an ugly sound. also i put a timing light on it and it was at 45*, i know its supposed to be at 5*btdc.

my questions are: do the balance shafts have anything to do with the shaking? do you have to align any sprockets with the balance shafts?
my timing is way off and do i have to realign the timing belt to get timing better or do i have to set timing through the computer?

thanks.



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

Posts: 165 | From: Berkeley, CA | Member Since: 07/02/10 | IP: (71.135.52.88) | Report this post to a Moderator

Barnes
Firechicken
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1030607 posted 11/02/11 12:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Don't run your car anymore. It sounds like you royally screwed up when you put the belts back on. You obviously didn't realize that YES your balance shaft sprocket alignment is CRITICAL to the engine running correctly. That would probably explain the horrible shaking. You probably also have your cam sprockets timed incorrectly.

Did you follow the VFAQ to a 't' when you put the belts back on? http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

If not, read the VFAQ over and over until you completely understand it. Then go back and re-do the t-belt job.



-Jon Barnes
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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1031572 posted 11/06/11 12:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
so i got the car running again, but now im tryna set my idle since its hunting. im looking for the engine speed connector, or if anyone could point me in the right direction on how to get idle to stop hunting that would be nice



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1031749 posted 11/06/11 08:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
well the car is done an up and runnning, im proud of my work but i must admit i dont like doing a timing belt on these cars, especially if the engine is still in the car



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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Barnes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1031767 posted 11/06/11 10:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So was it done incorrectly when you did it the first time?



-Jon Barnes
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524of1000
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1031782 posted 11/06/11 10:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting NickDromez:

well the car is done an up and runnning, im proud of my work but i must admit i dont like doing a timing belt on these cars, especially if the engine is still in the car




You get used to it...



America was raised on speed. Hot, Nasty, Bad ass speed. - Eleanore Roosevelt, 1936

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1032786 posted 11/10/11 10:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Barnes:

So was it done incorrectly when you did it the first time?




the reason it stripped was 'cause of a huge coolant leak. and when i put a new belt on i didnt align the balance shafts. its fine now, but it hunts hard for an idle



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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NickDromez
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1036469 posted 11/27/11 11:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
so im bringing this back since my tbelt skipped. i know why it skipped, the pulley side was not tight enough. this time around im doing it right, but its a huge pain in the ass! im not sure if its a common problem or anything but the belts that i have have 153 teeth and are both from Fastnal. idk if they are giving me the wrong belts or somthing but everytime i try to put the belt on it always seems to be 1/2 a tooth off and i can not get any of the timing marks to line up perfectly. i can get the cams, and crank to be perfect but then the oil pump will be off. i can get the crank and oil pump lined up but not the cams. etc. am i doing something wrong or is it just damn near impossible to get it all lined up???

right now i did get it on, however im not sure if its right. i started it up but it feels like its missing hella badly. i am considering getting the balance shaft removal kit just so i dont have to line the oilpump sprocket up perfectly. should i just do this?



#485/1000
RIP 1998 VW Passat
AWD > RR > FR
"V-tech wins 1/4 time, everytime."

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1036471 posted 11/28/11 12:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are you turning the exhaust cam clockwise a couple degrees while threading the new belt over the sprockets? That cam likes to retard a couple degrees when the belt is pulled off.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
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pauleyman
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1036512 posted 11/28/11 07:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The marks either line up or they don't. There is a sure fire way to make sure the belt is on correctly. Follow the specs in the factory service manual. Some parts can be skipped IF and ONLY IF you know what you're doing. You learn as you go. To me the most important parts are as follows

Once the belt is on and tensioned rotate it over by hand 5 full turns of the crank. Within 5 full turns all marks should come around and you can line up all 5 (assuming you still have balance shafts). At this point you have removed all the slack from the idle side and all marks should be dead on, no exceptions. If it isn't do it again.
At this point you can also check protrusion of the hydraulic tensioner. It's either in spec or it isn't. There is no close enough. If it isn't right do it again. I don't care if you have to take the belt off 10 times it's either right or it isn't. I lost count on timing belts after about 50. There is no good enough, there is no almost lined up, there is no cheat.

If you're seeing marks that aren't quite right it's because you have slack in the idle side (non tension side). This is why they tell you to rotate the motor over.
If you're off at all after doing what I described you'll be off full teeth. A good trick is to use a chalk mark on the belt and whatever gear you are on. If you were off a tooth on that gear you move a tooth and line up the the other marks. If you were to do this before you remove the belt in the first place it's difficult to put it back on a tooth off anywhere.

If you're sharp you will have figured out that the slack can be removed easily just by turning the crank a little bit. Once the belt is on it doesn't matter what position it's in when you set the hydraulic tensioner. As I said before once the belt is on rotate the motor and check both the marks and the protrusion of the tensioner. Practice makes perfect. I did my first tbelt 2 decades ago and I did it 8 times before I got it right. BTW that 8 times took me about 30 minutes. If you have any problems let us know.



Paul Lyons
24 years of mitsu
I must be nuts.

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Barnes
Firechicken
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1036555 posted 11/28/11 12:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The VFAQ addresses this EXACT issue. Read the damn VFAQ again, and again, and again until you understand the whole thing.



-Jon Barnes
#580/2000 (Long Gone)
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JCorbo25
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1036568 posted 11/28/11 01:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I did my first t-belt job 3 times before I got it right. It is imperative that you rotate the engine 5 times and line up all marks with proper tension.

Just study the VFAQ and follow it line by line. I found my mistakes just looking through the VFAQ over and over again.



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