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Re: '91-'93 3KGT VR4 4 pot Calipers Installed!


gixxer
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316214 posted 03/12/06 11:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
update?

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acbc
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316246 posted 03/13/06 04:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
3000Gt VR4 = GTO?

Anyway, where can I get the custom brackets to fit onto a VR4 knuckle? I can get the GTO calipers (1 set) easily here.

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316350 posted 03/13/06 12:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I still have a couple sets of the brake caliper brackets left if anyone is interested. They are $90 shipped a set and yes I do take paypal. I have also found that SSR Competition wheels fit over these brakes, not sure what offset they were as I was just borrowing them from a friend to see if they fit. Any Evo wheel should fit over this setup.

Pete




3000GT vr4 = GTO; yes.
Brackets available in 1st post.


Edited by Garfield Wright (01/19/09 06:54 PM)

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316355 posted 03/13/06 12:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

update?




Brakes holding up very well. I definately recommend getting the correct wheels to go with these calipers before you attempt this. Smallest wheel you can use is 17". 17x8 +38 evo 8 oem whells fits perfectly if you've gone 5 lug. If you're still 4 lug like me, the 5Ziggen listed on pg 2 of this thread should be perfect fit @ 35mm offset. This gives an additional 3mm offset. The evo 8 wheels @ +38mm offset still have some room which leads me to believe +35mm offset will work.


Edited by Garfield Wright (06/14/07 03:25 PM)

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acbc
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316601 posted 03/14/06 01:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm using Advan RC 17" x 7J. Will it clear the big brakes? The offset is +45.

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Yiuwa
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 316611 posted 03/14/06 03:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Actually it doesn't really matter what offset are your wheels made with, but the spoke pattern design

You should take your wheel to junkyard, mount it to any GTO caliper you can find to tell you for sure

Yiuwa



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Rice Killer
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 317039 posted 03/15/06 01:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I know Mark & a few others are going to get royally pissed off very soon, but I'm planning on going with 5Ziggen FNO1R-C 17x8 35mm bronze or black with polished lip.




I have a set sitting in my room right now, in Bronze, the black w/polished lip are $60 more a set, so I just went with bronze. The brakes look good Garfield but it looks like a lot of Labor and parts searching. It might just be easier, but a little more expensive to go with the Willwood 6 pots. This gives us GVR4 guys a couple options though.
Thanks for the writeup


Edited by Rice Killer (03/15/06 01:31 PM)

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 317062 posted 03/15/06 02:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I'm using Advan RC 17" x 7J. Will it clear the big brakes? The offset is +45.




17x7 +45mm offset will not clear. As Yiaw mentioned, spoke design plays a big part as well. I'd say if your spokes are thicker than 3/4", you may need spacers. Any wheels designed for the Evo 8 will clear these calipers. That being said, the smallest wheel you can run is 17x8 +38mm offset.


Edited by Garfield Wright (12/15/06 08:08 AM)

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acbc
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 317177 posted 03/15/06 06:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks.

I will try to grab a set of GTO front n rear calipers + rotors + knuckle for experiment.

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a1091156
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 318439 posted 03/19/06 03:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Or just do weight reduction instead which increases your brakes performance and your VR4s' acceleration

I'm a great believer that pad selection is just as important as rotor diameter, so with the lack of Ferrodo DS2500 or DS3000 pads available for the 4 Piston calipers, I can't justify myself adding extra unsprung weight. If you want to cheat though, we have a Mitsubishi 4WD model here called 'Pajero' model NJ where the Calipers are almost the same as the VR4s, the only difference being the pistons in these are about 3-4mm greater in diameter over the VR4 pistons

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 355789 posted 07/03/06 12:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Update:

The FNOR-1C didn't clear the calipers . It came down to spoke design. The spokes has approx a 1/2" lip that didn't clear the calipers. Any 17x8.5+30mm offset wheel designed for the evo 8 will work on the galant as well.

The hunt for aftermarket wheels is still on. If I go 5 lug, then the oem evo 8 wheels will clear without any problems. At this point, this is the most affordable option. I'm slowly gathering what I need to do this. If anyone has the 5 lug spindles w/abs that there willing to part with at an affordable price, please hit me up.

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 383501 posted 09/18/06 10:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Deleted


Edited by Garfield Wright (09/18/06 10:39 AM)

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 462772 posted 04/11/07 09:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Can a moderator move this from the 'general forum' to the 'how to forum'?

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crankwalk
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 463050 posted 04/11/07 06:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Quote:

update?




Brakes holding up very well. I definately recommend getting the correct wheels to go with these calipers before you attempt this. Smallest wheel you can use is 17".





Actually I have seen this setup on a 1g with some 16x8 SSRs that DID clear the caliper. The mitsubishi was shaved off the caliper and there was no spacer being run IIRC.

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Hans91VR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 463824 posted 04/13/07 02:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes, 16's will work with the right offset. OEM non-turbo 3000GT 16's clear the TT calipers (even if you have the lettering). The shaved lettering could have just been a dodge stealth caliper since they don't say anything.

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Garfield Wright
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 464093 posted 04/14/07 10:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They probably used the bracket from vfaq or dsmtalk (I don't recall) which is different from the one I used. The bracket I used was designed to work with the '94-'99 3kgt vr4 rotors which are about 1/2" wider in diameter/surface area than the '91-'93 3kgt vr4 rotors.

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belize1334
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1334/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 945285 posted 11/01/10 12:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just wanted to add a little info...

Stealth 316 lists the 3kgt pistons as 40.4/42.8mm for ALL YEARS of 3kgt. Rock-auto on the other hand says that this is true for 2G but lists something like 2.1" for the 1G. A member here on the boards (vapid) confirmed for me that the 1G are in fact ~1.5" confirming that the info on stealth 316 is correct and rockauto is WRONG. This allows for an estimate of the brake-bias that can be expected using 3kgt rotors.

Stock GVR4 brakes...

Front piston: 41.3mm x 2
Front rotor: 276mm
Rear piston: 34.9mm x 1
Rear rotor: 265mm

So, just looking for the clamping force ratio front/back we get (2*(41.3^2))/(34.9^2)=2.8. That is, in stock form the front brakes clamp down on the disks with 2.8 times the total force. Then, to get the torque split, we multiply again by the ratio of rotor diameters. First note that the front pad is about 3.8cm wide and the rear is about 3.2cm wide so the front and rear EFFECTIVE rotor diameters become 276-(38/2)=257mm and 265-(32/3)=249mm. Then the braking torque ratio becomes 2.8*(257/249)=2.9. So, in stock form, the front brake apply 2.9 times the TORQUE to the wheels and since the wheels are the same diameter front/back we get 2.9 times the stopping force on the front as on the back.

Now, we can repeat with 3kgt front brakes on a 12" rotor (typical). The same calculation becomes (40.4^2+42.8^2)/(34.9^2)=2.84. That is, switching to 3kgt brakes has almost NO effect on the clamping force. This is good because it means we shouldn't have to worry about the master cylinder being able to keep up. But, if the rotor is also increased in size we get the torque ratio as 2.84*(285/249)=3.25. Here I have assumed similar pad size to get the effective rotor diameter as 304mm (12") - 38mm/2 = 285mm. So, the take home is that while OEM gvr4 have a 2.9:1 front/back braking ratio, a 3kgt front brake setup will increase this to about 3.25 (rotor size depending) which is roughly a 12% increase in forward bias. Unfortunately, while this means that the front brakes will handle track duty more effectively (better heat dissipation) it also means that you're more likely to lock up the rears, especially as you stiffen the suspension and decrease forward weight transfer.



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green

Posts: 3295 | From: Dundee, Scotland, UK | Member Since: 11/18/03 | IP: (174.45.93.14) | Report this post to a Moderator

belize1334
well bread and nobly conceived
1334/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 945290 posted 11/01/10 12:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
^^ Quick correction / addendum. Above I said that the rears would be more likely to lock up. This is obviously wrong... the fronts become more likely to lock up as the forward bias is increased. But, I also did a quick internet search for typical bias values in track cars. It seems that for tarmac alot of people like ~70/30 where for gravel people go more toward ~80/20 to avoid spin-outs on loose surfaces. The decimal values that I gave are equivalent to about 74/26 (GVR4) and 76.5/23.5 (3kgt front). So, while being potentially a little front heavy there's no reason to conclude unilaterally that this mod is TOO front heavy. We'll have to ask the One-Lap team for their opinion on that.



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green

Posts: 3295 | From: Dundee, Scotland, UK | Member Since: 11/18/03 | IP: (174.45.93.14) | Report this post to a Moderator


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