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ABS Removal and Stainless Brake Line Install


sleepyvr4
I Hate Kitty Cats


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110009 posted 06/22/04 09:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
To start things off, you will need the following:
- a few bottles of brake fluid (high grade)
- non-abs proportioning valve from awd dsm
- non-abs brake lines (4 lines total)
- stainless brake line kit (8 line kit)
- 10mm line wrench - I used crapsman
- 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 18mm wrenches
- 10mm, 12mm sockets, ratchet
- pb blaster (you may need a torch, as I did)
- vise grips



I got my brake fluid off of ebay. BMW DOT4 fluid for $15 - and I got 8 bottles of the stuff. I also used it when I did my stainless clutch line, and it had great results.

The Non-ABS proportioning valve can come from a number of places. A galant gsx would probably be the best source, as it has the best distributon for the chassis. I didn't have access to one however, so mine came from an awd 1990 talon tsi.



These are the new hard lines you will need to source from a 1g TEL with Non-ABS, or a galant gsx. Mine came a 91 fwd eclipse, and fit perfectly. You will need the two lines that run directly from the brake cylinder to the proportioning valve, and the two lines that run from the proportioning valve to the front calipers. You will use your stock rear brake lines (thank god)



At the beginning I decided to remove the brake fluid reservoir, by first unbolting it from the firewall, and then undoing the feedlines to the brake cylinder. There is a sensor on the reservoir, so be sure to undo the clip. Take the feedlines off really quickly, having a towel (or plastic bag) handy to catch the spill. You won't need this for a while. The bracket holding the reservoir will probably look shitty, so take it off, sandblast it or wire brush it, and paint it black like the stones. Then spray the line fittings on the brake cylinder with pb blaster. Loosen them completely with a 10mm line wrench. (I had to heat one of these fittings with a torch)

Next, remove the coolant overflow reservoir, located directly over the abs motor unit. Also remove the bracket that holds it in place. Then un-bolt the power steering reservoir, leaving lines attached, and wedge it as far out of the way of the abs unit as you can (abs unit pulls straight up and out) This next picture shows the ps reservoir down, but you will move it around a bit.



Note the three red circles, as these are the three bolts holding the abs unit in place. The three electrical connectors at the bottom are for the abs unit, so unbolt the bracket they sit on. Then you have to pop each connector off the metal bracket. Discard the bracket. Before removing the mounting bolts for the abs unit, spray all the line fittings with pb blaster. Crack all the lines loose with a 10mm line wrench. I didn't need a torch for any of these lines.

Next, start removing all the lines that run to the abs unit and brake cylinder. These can all be discarded. The only original lines you will be using are your rear brake lines. All lines can be removed intact except for one in my case. It was the only line I cut to save time and aggrevation of removing a ton of shit.



The red arrows in the next picture point to the line that will need to be cut (in my case). The proportioning valve must be removed to get this line out. There is a bracket on the line that is held on by the same bolt that holds the proportioning valve. DO NOT REMOVE THE PROPORTIONING VALVE UNTIL ALL LINES ARE LOOSE. Hit this baby up with a ton of pb blaster. I did not need a torch for any of these fittings. Remove p-valve and do not mix it up with your new one (have the new one clean, so the abs one with fluid all over it will be obvious)



Here's some of the abs unit lines removed in the next picture.



Next, loosen the wheel nuts, jack the front end, and remove the wheels. You now need to undo the brake lines that run to the front calipers so you can get the front abs hard lines out. Now you should go ahead and hose down the fittings of the rubber brake lines with some pb, and undo the hard line that comes out of the engine bay. You will need a 10mm line wrench. I needed the torch to heat most of these fittings.


Edited by sleepyvr4 (10/20/06 09:19 AM)

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sleepyvr4
I Hate Kitty Cats


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110010 posted 06/22/04 09:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      


After loosening those lines, you can remove all the old hard lines from the car. Now comes the fun part: removing the abs unit. This is one heavy unit. Your front end will raise 6 inches once you pull this sucka out. You have to have all the connectors disconected, and the 3 bolts, and simply heave it out of there.







When my friend Mark glanced at this thing he first thought it was a lawnmower engine! Removal of this thing will shave 9/10ths of a second off your previous quarter mile time. (j/k - it may weigh 20-25lbs)

Since the car is up, remove the stock rubber brake lines using a 10mm box wrench (and torch), and you will need to keep the intermediate line stationary while trying to loosen the fittings, so put the vise grips to the fitting on the rubber lines. I believe the line entering the caliper is 17mm. Remove all this crap. You will need the intermediate lines.



Once the lines are all off, lower the car a bit and start putting the new lines in. Sorry I do not have a good pic of this, but having a 1g non-abs car around is helpful for reference. There's really only one way for the lines to go on, but the orientation is the difficult part of it. The two smallest shortest lines go from the proportioning valve to the brake cylinder. The long ones go from the proportioning valve to the wheel wells.



This picture above is one new brake line. Make sure you run it behind everything possible. Starting out it lines up with the clutch line, then goes down under the fuel filter along the firewall. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO BEND THE HELL OUT THE LINES. These things are resilient, and can be bent back no problemo.

The line for the driver side runs right with the lines that go from the brake cylinder to the proportioning valve. This side is tricky, but I did the driver caliper hard line last, which went pretty well. Once lines are run, bolt in new p-valve (partially) and screw in the new lines. It is very important not to tighten the new p-valve to the firewall the whole way. All the new lines you just put in will be slightly bent out of shape. This makes it difficult for them to screw directly into the p-valve. It is very tight in here, and wrenches do not move a whole hell of a lot. If you leave the p-valve loose on its bolt, it will swivel on it enough to where you can hand tighten all the new lines once you bend them and line them up correctly. This will save you LOADS of time. Also, when hand tightening the fittings, pull the hard line out from the p-valve, and you will be able to further tighten the fitting with your fingers.



The above picture will orient you with the p-valve and where all the hard lines run. These are all the new non-abs lines installed. Make sure they are all tight.



Edited by sleepyvr4 (10/20/06 09:14 AM)

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sleepyvr4
I Hate Kitty Cats


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110011 posted 06/22/04 09:49 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The next thing you will want to remove is the abs sensors. It bolts in on the back of the hub assembly on the bottom.





This picture above is one of the front abs sensors (both donated to Ken Inn). The wires that run up the wheel well are held down by phillips head screws. They are probably old and crusty, or saved by undercoating. Some come out easy, the others do the following: take your vise grips, attach to the little screw bracket, and bend back and forth until it snaps in half.



Above is where the abs sensor clips in. Take one 10mm bolt out, fold back the plastic wheel well piece, and undo two more brackets with phillips screws. These were a PITA. Again, use the vise grips method.

Now the fun part. On to installing the stainless steel brake lines. I got mine from roadraceengineering for $115 shipped, for an 8 line kit.



Here's what you need to look for when you get your stainless steel line kit: make sure you have two (2) new lines that have female fittings at both ends. These go from the hard lines coming from the p-valve to the intermediate lines which are only on the front brakes. The rest of your lines (6) should all have male fittings on one end and female on the other.



My lines had 18mm and 14mm ends on them. Install them and tighten all fittings securely.



Put the wheels back on, put lug nuts on finger tight, lower the front end. Loosen rear lug nuts. Raise the driver's rear side. Remove the wheel. Repeat steps for the front. Lower driver's side rear. Raise passenger side rear. Again reapeat the same steps.

Now go ahead and reinstall your brake fluid reservoir w/ nice new bracket. Fill it with your new fluid. Return to the passenger rear caliper. Crack the bleeder loose, then tighten it. (two person job now) One person at the caliper, the other pumping the brake. Bleed passenger rear caliper very well, lower car and raise driver's rear side. Fill brake fluid reservoir. Bleed that caliper well. Lower car and raise the front end. Fill brake fluid reservoir. Bleed the passenger front caliper. Bleed the front driver's side caliper. Check fluid. You're done.

If you're smart, check www.speedbleeder.com and you won't piss with bleeding as much.

Good luck.


Edited by sleepyvr4 (10/20/06 09:20 AM)

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Pivvay
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110012 posted 06/22/04 10:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You f*9king OWN! That rocked as a VFAQ. I need the prop valve and lines ASAP to finish my removal. Anyone got them? Huh? I'll pay good money as I don't have time to go out to the junkyard very much.

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atc250r Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110013 posted 06/22/04 10:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
HOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTOHOWTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank You!! I wanted to do that but I didn't want to have the car laid up for days while I did it. I guess it's time for a trip to the junkyard soon.

John

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Pivvay
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 110014 posted 07/28/04 12:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
These should be the part numbers for everything although Kibo tried (again) to order them and we could only get some to come in.

Galant GSX (E38A) Non-ABS Parts
MB500563 Brake line Right
MB699654 Valve
MB534428 Brake line Left
MB534856 M/cyl line Sec
MB534855 M/cyl line Pri

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 326870 posted 04/11/06 10:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nice write-up Colin!

I am waiting for a few of these lines, and a new GGSX p-valve to arrive. I've got a few things to add. Aparently the two lines that run from the master clyinder to the p-valve are almost impossible to source brand new, so these are the two lines that will absolutely need to come from a donor car.

I already have the stainless braided lines going to all four calipers. These lines can and do kink, so you want to make sure that they are as straight and untwisted as possible. Lower the car once they've been installed, and turn the steering wheel (may need a helper) while watching the lines for any kinking or strange movement. If they bind up a bit, loosen one end, twist it a bit to relieve the kinking, and retighten things down. Then check again.

For the bleeding, I've always been told to pump the brake pedal halfway only (if you're using this method to bleed your brake system). By doing full pumps to the floor, you risk messing up the pre-set bias in the proportioning valve. I've done it both ways and never had a problem, but might as well follow this half-pump method, since it doesn't add too much time to the job.

I've installed one-way bleeder valves (www.speedbleeder.com), which don't allow air to be sucked back into the caliper once the bleeder has been loosened/opened. There are also "brake bleed" kits you can buy that consist of a cap that screws onto the top of the brake fluid resevoir, which are attached to a hose and pump. When you pump it up, it creates pressure in the resevoir so that when you crack a bleeder valve, fluid is immediately pushed out, thus negating the need to mess with the brake pedal at all.

Lastly, put in some DOT 4 or higher fluid. Valvoline SynPower is cheap and can be found at AutoZone or similar. Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture. This lowers the boiling point of the fluid, and when your fluid boils, air is introduced to the system. This will result in a spongy brake pedal, and could be a very dangerous situation. Most manufacturers recommend that the fluid be changed every two years. I'd say do it at least once a year for a daily driver, and many more times if you use your car for twisty track events.


Edited by CP (05/17/06 06:36 PM)

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 338617 posted 05/14/06 07:56 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, I think I can honestly say that this was the biggest BITCH of a job I've had the pleasure to do on this car so far. It took me hours, and my hands and forearms are a bloody mess. My back isn't feeling so great either.

I started out with stainless lines in the wells already. I swapped in my new rotors and pads first, then started on this gem of a project. I decided to get the abs unit out first. Move coolant overflow tank and power steering fluid holder. Be sure to keep a rag around the ps cap, as it tends to leak. My unit was only mounted with two bolts. The lines all came off pretty easily. However this bad boy wanted to stay with the car, and put up a good fight. It's tough to get it out because of the awkward position it/you are in. I dropped it a few times, swore alot, and downed several beers while messing with this thing.

Next I loosened the two fittings in the wheelwells. No trouble there (CA car most of its life). I then removed the lines from the master cylinder. When I started with the line from the left front corner, I decided that I didn't have the patience to try to remove these things intact. All my old lines are now in 1 foot sections thanks to a set of tinsnips.

The two rear lines that are kept were the trouble makers. Neither wanted to come out of the old p-valve. This was the point where I went to get the PB, and hosed them down pretty well, soaking that insulation crap on the firewall in the process.

My main issue was getting access to the lines going into the p-valve, and the valve itself. I ended up removing my tower bar, lots of ground straps, bent up my throttle wire by accident, removed my return line from the AFPR, and and...hate this job by this point. Bending over for hours doesn't treat the back too well. And kneeling on the engine starts to hurt after a while. I ended up throwing one of my rubber winter mats up on there, and that was a welcome relief to the knees. My arms were submitted to the full fury of a sharp intake manifold, and some other scratchy things that I couldn't track down and beat with my mallet.

I finally got the two rear lines out of the p-valve. I bent up the firewall mount for it (the hole), but got it back mostly the way it was; it's only cocked a little now. Running the new lines wasn't too tough. Just alot of trial and error until they fit right. I'm not sure if it matters which line from the master cylinder goes into which front hole on the p-valve

Button everything back up, throw the empty 12-pack box in the trash, go take another piss, and then start bleeding the hell out of the entire system. With all the air in the lines, it took a while to get fluid at the calipers. I went around the car 3 times, moving a resevoir's worth of fluid through at each wheel each time. I don't mess around. Use the cheap stuff for this. Speedbleeders help too. On my final round, I used the Motul and was done with it. The pedal feels firm with the car off. I haven't had a chance to fire it up yet and go for a drive, but if it has the responsiveness that Colin's car did after his swap, then I'm sure I'll be happy with it.

The main reason I hated this job was the pain the car inflicted on my body. The p-valve is in such a tight spot that it's tough to get your hands near it. In trying to do so, your arms will get cut up. I couldn't get any good angles while standing/bending over a fender, so I was crouched on a floormat on top of the engine for a few hours messing with the damn p-valve. You'll definitely need a 10mm flare wrench, 10mm open ended wrench (preferrably with a ratcheting opposite end), 17mm flare wrench for the big nut in the wheelwell, tinsnips for the old lines, lots of brake fluid, patience, band-aids, beer, pizza and hours of music on hand.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
Rock Star Status


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 338848 posted 05/15/06 12:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I am waiting for a few of these lines, and a new GGSX p-valve to arrive. I've got a few things to add. Aparently the two lines that run from the master clyinder to the p-valve are almost impossible to source brand new, so these are the two lines that will absolutely need to come from a donor car.




just a thought, but if you know the lengths of the 2 lines that can't be sourced new, and the fitting sizes, maybe we can find stainless braided lines for these too??? i'm sure we could make them out of regular stainless brake line as well, unless there is anything particularly special about these lines????i don't know. but if we can get the correct i.d. (i'd guess that might matter) length, and fitting info, i might be able to find/make quality replacement units that could be substituted for the oem....just a thought.



Rance lives here...
Founder of Sold out to BMW Cru, then sold out there too.


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rob_a
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 340551 posted 05/18/06 04:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I used 2 old wheels stacked on top of each other to reach over the fender on the drivers side. That gave me the best leverage on the p-vavle. If you have old wheels I'd really reccomend this rather than kneeling on that engine lol. There is a bunch of crap down in there near it but if you trail and error for a while you should be able to get at least one arm in cleanly. It only took me about 4 hours total but due to me doing other stuff too I haven't taken mine out either.

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sleepyvr4
I Hate Kitty Cats


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 341340 posted 05/21/06 06:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just found this vfaq on abs to non abs conversion for a 1G TEL. It's not as sick as mine, but offers a little insight into the great white hype known as:

ABS ELIMINATION

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chris
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 691269 posted 09/05/08 05:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
how can i get rid of the abs light after doing this? ive heard either take out the bulb in the cluster or remove the computer. Is this true? i need it off so i can pass inspection.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 691273 posted 09/05/08 06:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you pull the fuse out by the battery, unplug the ABS motor, unplug the computer (back left of car by the antenna), I guarantee you won't have a light anymore Not sure how to accomplish it in a more minimal way, though.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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chris
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 692011 posted 09/07/08 04:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks.. that is the ticket for no light... take out the 2 fuses, rip out the pump and unplug the computer. Now i can get her inspected.

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Nemesis
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 838875 posted 10/10/09 07:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
How to Eliminate ABS using existing lines. I wanted to add this because I haven't seen a how to on this, and I thought it would help those out that don't have a donor car like me. Perhaps it's been done before, but what the hell. Here we go with the write-up.

You will need:

Non-ABS Proportioning Valve from AWD DSM
10mm line wrench
Pair of dikes
Tubing cutter
Flaring kit
Wrenches and sockets (the usual suspects)
PB Blaster or equivalent
Catch pan
A second wrist, and extra elbow


*Note* I know a lot of this has already been posted above. This is awesome for me, because it saves me a lot of time writing this. If you haven't already, read this entire post before continuing. It has a lot of valuable information in it, and since I'm trying not to be repetitive, I won't be going into detail in some areas. (i.e. I'll say remove ABS Pump, and not elaborate.) I do, on the other hand want to be as thorough as I can, so if I'm repeating stuff, bear with me. Besides, it's probably better to read it twice anyway.

First, take the PB and hose down your line fittings on the P-valve and abs unit and master cylinder. Put a catch pan underneath the ABS unit (AKA Lawnmower Engine). Next, using the 10mm line wrench, crack the six lines and the two bleeder valves loose from the unit. Should be a total of around twleve fittings and two bleeders if memory serves. Let the unit bleed out and then remove it. Should look something like this:




Now that the system has been drained, take the lines that run from the master cylinder to the ABS unit and remove them. Then take your line wrench and crack loose the lines connected to the P-Valve, but don't take them all the way out yet. Next you'll take out the P-valve bolt and remove the mounting tab for the line that runs over the top. Put the mounting bolt back in.



Now, take your dikes and cut the line that runs over the top of the valve (see pic below for where to cut). This is the line that runs to the passenger front from the ABS unit. Take the second half of the line that ran to the ABS unit and cut it with a tubing cutter and remove the fitting, as you will be using it on the P-valve. You'll be doing this a few more times while doing this project. This is also the part where it's really important that you use a line wrench to initially remove the lines, and not a pair of rusty vice grips. You won't be able to re-use rounded fittings, so if you don't own a line wrench, find a way. You'll thank yourself later.




Take your tubing cutter, cut the line, and slide the fitting over top of the line:




Now the really fun part where the second wrist and extra elbow come in. Using a flaring tool, press a new flare onto the end of the line. Flaring kits can be purchased at any auto parts store for about twenty bucks and come with directions. If you've never used one, practice on the line that you just cut off before going any further. When you're done, it'll look similar to a stock flare, and with a couple of attempts, you'll be a pro. Oh yeah, you need to have a straight section of line in order to flare it. You can't use a flaring kit on a bend. Once finished, this line will go on the bottom left of the valve as you are facing the firewall.


This next step takes a little finesse, and some patience. Follow the two lines that come out of the P-valve and run to to ABS unit. These are the ones that come straight out of the valve as you're facing the firewall. Instead of removing them, and relpacing with donor lines, you'll be doing some bending and finangling to get these lines up to the master cylinder. The line on the left will go to the front of the master cylinder, and the one on the right will go to the rear. Do this next part one line at a time. This will save you the headache of working on one line without the other being in your way. Take the lines and gently bend them up and over the master cylinder to put them in their respected places. Make sure you leave enough line to bend up, over, and down, but don't bend it down yet, or you won't be able to flare the ends. Should look like this:




Now take your tubing cutter and cut the line. I cut mine (for the rear) here:



Now take your fitting, slide it over the line, and flare the end. Repeat for second line, but don't bend them down or attach them just yet. Should look similar to this:




Now that all of the other lines are out of your way, take the line that runs to the driver's side wheel and EVER SO CAREFULLY, bend it to bring it around to eventually get it to the P-valve. This takes quite a bit of discretion, as it is very easy to kink and muff up your line. If you do, you'll have to buy some line and bend it to fit and flare both ends. No big deal, but who the hell wants to do that? Nodody does. The cool part about this line is you don't have to cut it. You can just use the fitting that's already on there. Anyhow, you'll place the line behind the master cylinder lines and, like I said "finangle" it to the right side of the valve.







Take the lines that are still attached to the P-Valve and remove them, and the old valve. Next take the Non-ABS P-valve and attach the front lines first. Don't bolt in the valve, as this makes line attachment much easier, because you'll be able to move the valve around. The front lines are lines that you've fabricated, so they won't line up perfectly. Putting them in first will save you a bunch of time. Take a look.




Now attach the remaining lines to the valve and bolt it back on.




Now that all of that nonsense is done, take your master cylinder feed lines and gently bend them down and attach them. A neat trick for bending lines is to put the wrench over the fitting and use it for leverage. Be careful you don't kink the lines when you do it.




Sometimes when you're reusing fittings, you'll find that over time, they've collected rust or corrosion on the inside and are hard to get back on to a freshly cut line (Or off of the old one for that matter). Take a small circular file and clean the junk out of the inside of the fitting. I do this even when they aren't gummed up.




Fill up the master cylinder with the good stuff, bleed the brakes and you're done. Don't forget to take your old P-valve and throw it into the woods somewhere. Enjoy!

-Adam-

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alik
Member +
40/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 889655 posted 04/12/10 04:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Adam, thank you very much for great info!


Now, how much does the lawnmower, er, ABS motor weigh, do you ask?




Yep. 18.6lbs, sitting in front of driver side tire.



#40/2000, Nile Black
'90 Miata, waay to fast in corners

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