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Running wires for stereo install


spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109509 posted 03/15/03 08:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm getting ready to do a stereo install on my GVR4 and I'm running some of the wiring before the equipment comes in. I want to see what you all had to say about my situation. I tried searching but nothing came up.

First, I am running a single 8ga power wire from the battery to the trunk. I located the grommet for the wiring harness on the firewall but it's too tight to slip the wire through. I even tried some silicone lubricant. I cannot see the grommet from the inside because of the AC/vent parts are in the way, so I couldn't poke it through from there. So what's a decent way to get this wire through?

Second, I want to run 10ga speaker wire into the doors so I can run decent power without risking loss of SQ or, worse, overheated wires. I would rather not drill anything. So, what's a good way to run these wires in there?

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109510 posted 03/15/03 08:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Pull off the passenger front tire and the plastic inner fender lining that goes up over the tire. Behind it on the firewall is a huge plug that you can poke a crapload of wires through. It comes out right behind the glovebox on the inside of the car. In the fenderwell you can ty-wrap the power wire right to the abs sensor wire that goes through there and into the engine bay. It comes out right behind the battery. When its all done this way it looks very clean.

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GeeRIDE
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109511 posted 03/15/03 09:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I did the same thing turbowop described for my battery relocation, PITA in my situation, If you have the time, It looks very clean, You may find a way to do it quicker than I, I think It had something to do with 2 gauge wire going back through the grommet near the ecu, haha

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Hibrn8
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109512 posted 03/15/03 09:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
well first off you are gonna lose sound quality by using 8 gauge power wire. Go at least 4 gauge to eliminate clipping and any overheating of the amp due to lack of current.

i had it easy for my amp install bc my battery is relocated to the trunk. but running my 0 gauge through the car was interesting.

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GeeRIDE
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109513 posted 03/15/03 09:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Hibrn8:
well first off you are gonna lose sound quality by using 8 gauge power wire. Go at least 4 gauge to eliminate clipping and any overheating of the amp due to lack of current.

i had it easy for my amp install bc my battery is relocated to the trunk. but running my 0 gauge through the car was interesting.

wow bet it was very interesting. My fuel pump rewire was very easy due to the battery in the trunk.

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109514 posted 03/15/03 09:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Excellent. I'll give the power wire trick a try Sunday.

So does anyone have ideas on the speaker wires to the doors?

Hibrn8:
How can you say 8ga isn't good enough when you don't know what amp I'm running? It's a PPI PC450, a good 5+ years old model, 50Wx4 RMS. I don't recall the numbers but I did the math according to the manual and 8ga is perfect for the amp. It'll be running front/rear speakers only. I do have a second amp that I will be installing at a later date to run a 10" sub, but obviously I'll need 2x 8ga or 4ga to do that.

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GeeRIDE
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109515 posted 03/15/03 09:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
bigger wire = more voltage = more power = better sound . Bigger is always better. From my experience I realized that statement to be true. I used 8g wire for the longest time, then upgraded to 2g and noticed a world of difference, If you're going to do it, do it right or dont do it at all.

The doors, hm, follow your oem wires and see where they go, try and do the same. 10g would be perfect for door speakers, good size for good volts.

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109516 posted 03/15/03 10:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by gvr4in:
bigger wire = more voltage = more power = better sound . Bigger is always better. From my experience I realized that statement to be true. I used 8g wire for the longest time, then upgraded to 2g and noticed a world of difference, If you're going to do it, do it right or dont do it at all.

Ok, now that you got me thinking... I pulled out the PPI manual. Here's the formulas they use:

Total RMS x 2 = Total input wattage (assumes 50% amp efficiency)

Total Input Wattage / Supply Wattage = Current Draw (in Amps)

Since the amp in question is a Powerclass 450, its wattage RMS is 200W.

200W x 2 = 400W total input

400W / 12V = 33.3Amp current draw

Then they list a chart of power wire in gauge versus run length versus current draw.

According to their chart 13-16ft with current draw of 20-35Amp reccommends 6ga. Hmm. Touche.

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109517 posted 03/15/03 10:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by gvr4in:
I did the same thing turbowop described for my battery relocation, PITA in my situation, If you have the time, It looks very clean, You may find a way to do it quicker than I, I think It had something to do with 2 gauge wire going back through the grommet near the ecu, haha

I also ran 2awg wire for my battery relocation. Behind the glove box was a *little* difficult to get at the wire but not too bad. I used a 100amp circuit breaker as a fuse.

BTW, like previously mentioned....with the battery in the trunk wiring the amp and fuel pump is hella easy. And FWIW, I use 4awg for my amp.

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Hibrn8
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109518 posted 03/16/03 01:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ok since you are runnign th power wire all the way from teh front of the car you have about a 12-15 ft span of wire running through the car. you are only talking about 12-14 volts of generated power bring run through that long wire.

as a matter of fact i run all my amps from Directed Electronics makers of Precision Power(PPI). I know right off the bat you will need 4 ga. to get the true quality out of the amp. Its just how it is, you can have the best equipment but it will not perform the best without the right cable and wiring. Im just trying to help you out so it doesnt end up lower than your expectations. Obviously since you are putting a 4 channel amp in your car it sounds to mean that you want cleaner sq and more volume, so i would jsut do it right the first time and deal with less stress later. from what i know, 4 ga wire is only an extra 1-1.50 a foot over 8 ga. As a matter of fact when i was studying the monster cable product, 4ga. wire actually had 5 times more strands of copper wire than the 8ga = more current flow due to more surface area of wire.

sorry for the long post but it may help you.

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109519 posted 03/16/03 01:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You should be fine with 8 gauge if you stick to just that amplifier. What is the fuse size ofd the amp and I can let you know for sure.

10 gauge is very heavy speaker wire for a car. 16-14 gauge is plenty.

Harry

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GeeRIDE
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109520 posted 03/16/03 02:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by spoulson:
quote:
Originally posted by gvr4in:
bigger wire = more voltage = more power = better sound . Bigger is always better. From my experience I realized that statement to be true. I used 8g wire for the longest time, then upgraded to 2g and noticed a world of difference, If you're going to do it, do it right or dont do it at all.

Ok, now that you got me thinking... I pulled out the PPI manual. Here's the formulas they use:

Total RMS x 2 = Total input wattage (assumes 50% amp efficiency)

Total Input Wattage / Supply Wattage = Current Draw (in Amps)

Since the amp in question is a Powerclass 450, its wattage RMS is 200W.

200W x 2 = 400W total input

400W / 12V = 33.3Amp current draw

Then they list a chart of power wire in gauge versus run length versus current draw.

According to their chart 13-16ft with current draw of 20-35Amp reccommends 6ga. Hmm. Touche.

Lol. I wasn't tryin to start a war or anything but ok. This is what you first said:

Hibrn8:
How can you say 8ga isn't good enough when you don't know what amp I'm running? It's a PPI PC450, a good 5+ years old model, 50Wx4 RMS. I don't recall the numbers but I did the math according to the manual and 8ga is perfect for the amp. It'll be running front/rear speakers only. I do have a second amp that I will be installing at a later date to run a 10" sub, but obviously I'll need 2x 8ga or 4ga to do that.

Now you say they recommend 6ga. wire, Like hibrn8 and I have been saying, just do it right, go 4ga. and you'll be loving the benefits later. Even if 6ga. is 'recommended', going a bigger wire( 4,2 ga. ) Can't hurt anything, It'll just give you a better voltage flow rate because of the SA of the wire. The more current the flow of your battery voltage, the more constant power your amp is getting. If you're going to be running a single or dual subs later down the line, you'll def. want bigger than 6ga. wire, so why not do it now for an extra say $10? Im not tryin to bash or anything, We're all just tryin to help, and most everyone who is posting in this thread has experience with running bigger ga. wire through their cars and has loved the benefits.

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109521 posted 03/16/03 05:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by gvr4in:
Now you say they recommend 6ga. wire, Like hibrn8 and I have been saying, just do it right, go 4ga. and you'll be loving the benefits later. Even if 6ga. is 'recommended', going a bigger wire( 4,2 ga. ) Can't hurt anything, It'll just give you a better voltage flow rate because of the SA of the wire. The more current the flow of your battery voltage, the more constant power your amp is getting. If you're going to be running a single or dual subs later down the line, you'll def. want bigger than 6ga. wire, so why not do it now for an extra say $10? Im not tryin to bash or anything, We're all just tryin to help, and most everyone who is posting in this thread has experience with running bigger ga. wire through their cars and has loved the benefits.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I discovered my mistake in the calculations as I typed them. But um, I guess touche was the wrong word to use, as I was being sarcastic.

I stopped at Tweeter today for a 4ga wiring kit.

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Scott Y
mighty skunk hunter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109522 posted 03/16/03 08:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
For the door wires, I used a coat hanger and ran the wires through the stock rubber conduit between the frame and the door. It took me a long time, but I was patient and I was able to get the wires through. I guided the wire from the door into the car, as there was more room to wiggle the wire around to make it bend through the rubber. There's probably something better to use than a wire coat hanger, something a little more flexible. I had to be very careful not to poke a hole in the rubber. Patience is the key.
I kept all of the stock wiring in place, so I just ziptied the new wire to the original wire, so I can go back to stock if need be.

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GeeRIDE
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109523 posted 03/16/03 08:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I discovered my mistake in the calculations as I typed them. But um, I guess touche was the wrong word to use, as I was being sarcastic.

I stopped at Tweeter today for a 4ga wiring kit.

hehe touche. Tweeter's a good store, good choice on the kit

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109524 posted 03/16/03 09:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by gvr4in:
quote:

I stopped at Tweeter today for a 4ga wiring kit.

Tweeter's a good store, good choice on the kit
I wouldn't go that far... [Wink]

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109525 posted 03/16/03 10:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Jsut to drive the point home bigger doesn't always mean better. Most car amplifiers have regulated power supplies. Some do not.

BTW I sell boatloads (pun intended) of upgrade wire.

Harry

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109526 posted 03/16/03 10:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
Jsut to drive the point home bigger doesn't always mean better. Most car amplifiers have regulated power supplies. Some do not.

What's the difference?

quote:
BTW I sell boatloads (pun intended) of upgrade wire.
By all means, plug your service! [Smile] What exactly are you in the business of?

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Hibrn8
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109527 posted 03/16/03 11:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yeah i have spools of this shit just chillin will be avail. soon to anyone via the website in my signature below.

good move spoulson!

as far as getting a coat hanger through the ruber grommets for the speaker wire, all i can say is DAMN! I commend you on your patience for that. i probably would have kicked the door off the car in frustration.

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Gabor
Decal Specialist!
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109528 posted 03/17/03 10:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I use DIY cat5 in my home setup. I just wish there was enough room to run that to my door speakers in the car.
No flames please but yes, good wires make a huge different in sound quality. Even in the car.


Gabor
692/1000

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Jon Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109529 posted 03/17/03 12:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by spoulson:
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
Jsut to drive the point home bigger doesn't always mean better. Most car amplifiers have regulated power supplies. Some do not.

What's the difference?

An unregulated power supply will fluctuate power (wattage) with the voltage input. Typically, these are in your higher end amplifiers. For instance, an amp will be rated at 50 watts a channel at 12 volts. At 14 volts, it could be more like 60 watts.

With a regulated power supply, the power is regulated to be 50 watts regardless of the voltage input. These are in your cheaper amps or even in the the cheaper line of amps. Kenwood and Sony both use regulated power supplies. God I'm rusty but I think I remember that if the voltage drops (like 11 volts instead of 14), then the amperage the amplifier draws increases thus increasing the work the amplier does and the increase likelyhood that you'll blow a fuse.

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number3
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109530 posted 03/17/03 12:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
BTW I sell boatloads (pun intended) of upgrade wire.
I work for Hifi House in Broomall, PA. Tweeter would like to think we are a competitor. I was hinting on their silly ad compaign "Boatload of know how".

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109531 posted 03/17/03 12:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by number3:
I work for Hifi House in Broomall, PA. Tweeter would like to think we are a competitor. I was hinting on their silly ad compaign "Boatload of know how".

So that's where you work. My gf works across the street at Brother's Electric. I'll have to stop in one day to say hi.

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Hibrn8
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109532 posted 03/17/03 11:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Tweeters company doesnt even phase the one im at, their prices get stomped on.

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spoulson
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109533 posted 03/18/03 12:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Ok, I got all the necessary pre-outs, 4ga power, and ground connections all ready in the trunk.

I was test fitting my two amps and they seem to be able to fit on the back of the rear seat. But that panel seems pretty flimsy as it is just some kind of cardboard and behind it is padding from the rear seat.

How has anyone else mounted the amps? I have a sheet of 1/2" MDF here but I don't really want to use it unless I have to because it's damn heavy. I'd prefer not to mount it on the trunk floor because I'd still like to have storage. I also hate drilling so I'd like to use factory holes if possible. Any ideas?

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