broxma
(retard monkey strength)
09/14/11 03:28 AM
Dear new/prospective owners

I'd like to welcome you to the GVR4 forums. Thank you for showing interest in our little neck of the woods. Now, let's go ahead, answer a few questions, and get a few things straight.

Q - "Are these cars reliable? I hear they have problems."

A - Are you reliable? Do you have problems? You see reliability is as much a measure of the typical owner as it is the car, probably more so. These cars are 20 years old now. They have problems, it's a fact. Fortunately, the typical GVR4 owner is a little older than the typical 95 Honda Civic owner. We tend to have jobs that pay above minimum wage and don't hassle with 16 year old girlfriends who key our cars when they get mad we didn't call them Friday night. So while the typical owner of a mid 90's Integra/Civic is worried about the Ebay HID kit and having his friend fire up the torch so he can drop the car ghetto style, we are checking the tranny fluid level and rust proofing or replacing front subframes. While they might be scraping the cash together to get a 19.95 "Carbon Fiber Look" exhaust welded onto their stock rear section regardless of the obvious smoke they have billowing out at idle, we are probably checking for frayed wires and thin hoses, focusing on when we have to do the next timing belt change.

See there is a scale. It's called the "Importance Scale". It goes like this.

Fart Cans/EBAY HID Kits<--------------------------------------------------------------->Mainenance

Generally speaking, around here, we fall towards the right side of that scale. If you fall towards the right side of that scale, then again, welcome to the boards. If not, sell or don't buy a VR4. There are precious few of them left and we don't need you mucking anymore of them up, than people like you already have.

Q - "What parts will break/fail/need be worried about?

A - All of it. All parts will fail, break or need to be replaced depending on two things. First, where you fit on that scale up there. Very important. And second, what you plan on doing to the car. If you want a Daily Driver, then understand daily drivers typically don't have 70mm turbos and 4 inch exhausts and the ones that do will typically break down at an accelerated rate. To paraphrase a quote from the famous American soldier Aldo Raines, "When you buy this car, you take on Deb't." That debt is paid in replacing almost every part you know to be 20 years old. It appears when you have a 3000 budget and you don't throw it all in a giant turbo, ignoring the hundreds of other moving parts. But in general, your specific car will have about as many problems as items you willfully ignore. One thing to note is that radiator hose, the one with the texture on it? It's twenty years old. And the transmission? Yeah the gears have gone through 20 winters of driving and are probably not factory fresh anymore. All of these things need to be addressed. To ignore them puts you back towards the left side of the scale, and we don't like that.

Q - "Don't these cars have x problem and Y problem?"

A - For the most part, no. The people who have owned DSM's, and subsequently GVR4's due to the similarity, have had cars which present with those problems. But let's look at who these people are. Is it the local high school kids back in 2002 complaining about bad clutches and trannies on the 1G's they bought as a first car? Sure it is. Why? Because high school kids race everywhere, at all times. They do zero maintenance. They think they bought a race car, when in fact they bought an abused POS time bomb they drive like a maniac and then complain about when it fails due to their own neglect on some internet forum. Barring abject failure of the manufacturer or just overall crap quality(Yugo anybody?), any car is as reliable and problem prone as the typical owner allows it to be. Find the first five mid 90's Integra's or Civic you can, and count the number with a major visual or audible problem. Why is that number so high? Because high school and college kids who know F-All about anything mechanical own and maintain them, and by maintain, I mean, spend date money on an EBAY exhaust, rims and HID kits. The problems of the owner will be reflected in the car. If you are a problem, then so will the car be. There is a reason the number one cause of death for males 16-25 is auto accidents. And those deaths, are not car specific. It is the desire of that age group to drive fast and stupid, and that is reflected in the care they have for their car, in general.

Q - "What is the thing I should look for before I buy one?"

A - Preferably everything. I like to actually look at the car before I buy it. If you mean what is the one "Go - No Go" item, there isn't one. Having a motor is nice. Tranny would be cool. The motor doesn't have to be running because it probably has over 150K on it and will need work anyway. If it's running, great. Maybe check for obscene amounts of rust. A little rust you can deal with, no floorpan though? You probably wanna keep shopping unless you like welding as I do. It works like this. Go back to the "Cars For Sale" section since you're a member now, hopefully, and look at those cars. Find the number that are ready to go out of the box, need nothing. It's about 1-3% of them, maybe. My car has 10-15 grand into it easy, and I couldn't sell it as "Needs Nothing". If you buy a GVR4 or almost any 1G and most 2G DSM's now, you bought a project. Understand that before you even consider buying it.

Q - "Whats the first thing I should do when I get the car?"

A - My answer for this is not in line with many but I am a man of constant sorrow. I am of the opinion, that you tear it down or as I told Steve one day, hit the reset button. Doing a semi-thorough tear down, not into the motor or anything, just the externals mostly, allows you to really see what you're dealing with. A friend bought a 97 Talon a while back with a 1G head swap. He only paid a grand for it so a good deal for a mostly complete car. Upon cursory inspection, it looked pretty good. Upon tearing it down, it had the 95 cams in a 1G head, with a ghetto cut steel block off plate for a 2G T-stat housing to fit the 1G head. It had a JB Weld holding the rigged cam position sensor on the drivers side of the head. It had RTV blocking off the cam seal where the 1G CAS should have been. It had a 2G intake manifold RTV sealed on the big port 1G head. So my position is tear it down. Outside of that, the answer is basic. Belts, hoses, timing, fluids. From there, just listen for the noises or find the leak and fix it.

Q - "I just got my GVR4 but I don't have the badge number. Can you help me find it?"

A - Probably not. Those of us who know what number our car is are the lucky ones I guess. The numbers were applied on the docks after they arrived from Japan. This tells you two things. One, the GVR4 is not a DSM. They are "DSM-Like" in drivetrain only. DSM's were built in America, not imported from Japan. Two, the numbering system is arbitrary. The badges were randomly slapped on and key fobs thrown in to match the badge. Occasionally, a new owner will buy a car without a badge which has a VIN registered here on the site, but for the most part, if you don't know, and the previous owner doesn't know, we don't know either. Sometimes people have had luck finding something in the car, a scrap of paper stuffed in the glovebox or on the back of a card from some dealership, with the number of the car on it. In this case, if you need a badge, still not a lot of help. You can buy a random badge from time to time for 100+ dollars these days. You can also get a Key fob with the badge number, hack off the ring attachment part and paste it up there. This is the cheapest way to do it and although not the right size, I think it looks acceptable as a substitute. I would never separate my car from it's badge and find the practice to be underhanded except in the case of sending it to the crusher, in which case the badge should be removed and retired. Side note, I really like my badge number, because it is a Prime Number.

Q - "Can I fit 20" rims on my GVR4? Can you help me with the wiring for my Neon and HID's"

A - Probably and Yes. Will you suffer some ridicule at the hand of the more classically minded individuals on the boards? You bet your 20" DUB's you will. This is where we look at the matters of taste and generally that means, younger owners with, what some would say, crazy ideas. The members of the board, as I mentioned elsewhere, tend to be older, more reserved. Our opinions on taste tend to shy away from the gaudy and obscene and lean more towards the classic OEM in appearance. While many of us swap rims and do JDM bumpers, cut holes in their hoods for external wastegates, we tend to have strong opinions about what constitutes good taste and what constitutes getting laughed at. Generally speaking, around here, appearance mods should likewise be functional. While some of the younger members may, in the opinions of many, be corrupt in certain judgments, we tend to help them anyway unless the idea is obscene to the true definition of the group. A recent example of this would be the 'Can I convert to RWD' question, and the subsequent position many of the more learned members took regarding this inquiry. It should however be noted that taste is an individual thing. If your personal taste leans towards the flamboyant, maybe the GVR4 isn't for you. It's not a flamboyant car by design, rather it's a somewhat boxy 4 door sedan with a lot of potential. Most people see the car as such, and that tends to be reflected in their aesthetic choices. Basically, if you are thinking of that Duraflex body kit on Ebay before you even bought the car, a few of us hope you will reconsider or simply move along.

Q -"Wow, you're kind of grumpy. Isn't this a help and support forum?"

A - Yes. And I take my 20 years of working on DSM's and GVR4's very seriously. I didn't just randomly choose one of these cars one day and then decide it was better than sliced buttered bread. I came to that conclusion after doing comparisons with other comparable vehicles and motors over the course of years. I happen to believe that the 4G63 motor is one of, if not the finest small displacement power making engines ever made. I have worked on almost any car you can imagine save for a few exotics, most of which I have done more than basic maintenance. Now it's my turn to share that knowledge with the new kids who are just getting started at this car obsession. I help a small group of younger guys around me right now with their DSM's and always start our relationship with the same sentiment. "You bought this car thinking you bought a race car. Those days are over. This isn't a race car. This is a test. A test to determine how well you listen. I know more about your car right now, than you will five years from now. From here on out, after we determine the budget and your final goal, you will do exactly what I say. You will buy the parts I tell you. You will run all purchases past me first. We will start at the back of the car, and work our way forward, contrary to how you think we should do this. You will not spend money on body kits and rims when you still need suspension, head work, engine work, electronics, etc. We will work the mechanical parts first, getting it running reliably, then you can worry about what it looks like. If you agree to this, then let's get started. If not, the roll this piece of crap out of my driveway and find someone else to help you." Yes. Exactly that way.

So that about sums it up. If there are any other questions that need an honest answer feel free to post them. I'll be glad to answer them as will any of the other rowdy types around here.

And welcome to the boards. Now get to work.

/brox


prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
09/14/11 09:44 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Now that is a rant!

I agree with all the above said things. I've had a GVR4 for 9 years now. I'll never be without one and to me seeing a hacked up VR4 makes me sad. It's disappointing to me to see a great car treated like it's another neon or civic. There are very few out there and these can't be replaced. I only hope that all new owners will show the respect that these cars deserve.


boostedinaz
(Fatty McButterpants)
09/14/11 10:21 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

I can attest to this first hand. I bought 1101 from someone who truly cared about these cars and it showed (hence why I bought it the first time). I took good care of the car and made some improvments while I had it. Fast forward only 3 years and 3 other owners and the car is a basket case in my driveway being sorted out.

At least two of the other owners were as described from what I can tell. They thought they could just buy a car slap a few things on and suddenly they have a race car. Nope. The last owner had great intentions and a lot of determination. Unfortunatley those things combined with a minimal amount of knowledge about these cars also turned out bad.

I think the biggest downfall with these cars is listening. There are those of us who have been around the block a few times and we know what we are talking about. Those people who are new don't take the advice we give them and as usual things tend to pan out poorly for them.

Again not trying to pick on anyone but the car I am currently working on is a great example. The previous owner was told more than a few times to keep things organized and to put all the bolts in little bags that are labeled. They didn't do that and now I searching through a box a trying to figure out what bolts go where. To add to that I am finding that I am missing quite a few bolts. The extra time (maybe 30 seconds to write on a Ziplock) has turned into house upon hours of searching and comparing to get the right bolts back in the right place.

As with anything in life you get out what you put in.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
09/14/11 10:45 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

I love this thread.

524of1000
(Crossed Member)
09/14/11 11:34 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

I have learn-ed much from this man. And everything he says here is literally what he tells everyone else in person. It's funny how many don't heed the warning though...

KiNgMaRtY
(Member +++)
09/14/11 03:26 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

This should be a sticky at the top.

Mark LaVallee
("Satan's" Wrenchman)
09/14/11 03:54 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Absolutely spot on.

conquesttsi
(Member)
09/14/11 04:15 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

This is an excellent post...because race car.

Seriously, though. Nice post. I think you said what many were thinking but vocalized it very well, in a helpful and informative manner.


GSX_TC
(295hp 35r BR4)
09/15/11 03:33 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

very well said, but i bet alot of the younger aged group wouldnt even take the time to read that.

Eaglesfly
(Junior Member)
09/15/11 11:03 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Excellent thread and I couldn't of said it better myself. I've had my Talon for 11 years, and it has served me well as a daily driver early on, then to a track car, and now back to a high powered street car. I would have never had success without treating the car properly and keeping up on the REQUIRED maintenance. I am putting the same care and devotion into my VR-4, taking my time to do it right, from back to front.

Hittman
(my title is ghey)
09/15/11 11:48 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

"I happen to believe that the 4G63 motor is one of, if not the finest small displacement power making engines ever made."

transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
09/15/11 01:48 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

love my dsm, love my vr4! i have had over 15 dsm's and they were all awesome. they always drove great and i never seemed to have the problems others had, because my whole life my father always drilled maintenance of the car into my head. all my cars are always well maintained and kept as clean as i can and usually sold better looking and better running then when i first bought the car. i may be on the younger side of this but i agree 100% with the OP. i have a cousin the same age, sold him one of my old cars and within 3 months he ran the thing out of oil and snapped the camshaft in half, called me up and told me i sold him a piece of shit. went over there and there wasn't a drop of oil in it and he said it had been making this weird clunking noise for the last week. he was 23 when he did this... some people are just plan stupid..

DR1665
(Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips)
09/15/11 08:59 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

"Q" - "I didn't come here to be abused."

A - Where do you usually go to be abused? I bet you'll find fake, carbon fiber trim parts and Ebay HID kits there too. These, along with chromed plastic portal vents - or any prismatic decal, particularly those with tigers, skulls, flames, or flaming tiger skulls - are a sad reality of life in a poorly educated, irresponsible, hyper-consuming society such as ours. If you feel falsely accused of wrongdoing, don't take it personal. That's just how we, in America (fuck yeah) prove ourselves right - by pointing fingers at everyone else.

Q - "I've owned eleventy-billion DSMs. How do I get rid of the newbie title?"

A - You don't talk about your title on this forum, instead showing everyone else here - everyone - how you are more than some random newbie. You also make a point of not referring to GVR4s as DSMS. They are not. (Yes, this was addressed previously, but it's fucking important.) Everyone is welcome here. There's cold beverages in the fridge, plenty of tools in the shop, and a lifetime of research material available between the forum and Library. Those of us who are not slovenly reprobates are happy to grab you that first cold one or show you how to use our slightly eccentric search utility, but after that, show us you're a pro jock by helping yourself, or telling us why the results of your searching turned up bupkis. Remember: The amount of help you get is directly related to the amount you get.

Q - "How do I get one of those special titles like you guys?"

A - Say (or do) something you really wish you could take back. Often, this is stupid, mildly homo-erotic (I am so screwed now), or a combination of the two.

Q - "Blah, blah, blah, DSM's? Blah, blah, blah GVR4's?"

A - Apostrophe+s is used to communicate possession - not plurality. An example of the apostrophe+s being used correctly might be, "My DSM's carbon fiber-look fart cannon is dragging on speed bumps." Another example of correct use might be, "How do I know if my GVR4's had its transfer case recall work performed?" Notice the lack of apostrophe on its, there. BONUS MATERIAL! Possessive it does NOT get the apostrophe, because "it's" is a contraction of it is. Back on topic, using apostrophe+s to imply plurality just distracts the grammar nazis from whatever it was you were trying to say about carbon fiber-looking exhausts and Ebay HID kits.

Q - "Who does this turbowop guy think he is?"

A - Rance, Jr.. The last psychotherapist took him through hypno-therapy, revealing him to be the lone survivor of an Alaskan crab fishing outfit which drug a particularly angry Cthulhu up from his house at R'lyeh, interrupting his fhtagn. Ever since, stepping into the ring with 'Wop tends to leave people feeling like they can see forever. Let his pithy taunts roll off you back, for stupendous and unheard-of splendors away you below. You shall seek them soon.

Oh yeah, and this place is probably the best part about these cars, which are fucking awesome (even when they don't run), and we're glad you're here.


GSX_TC
(295hp 35r BR4)
09/15/11 09:08 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

LOL eleventy Billion haha

Galantvr4559
(Member +)
09/15/11 10:44 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

everyone who owns a gvr4 should read this thread. Well spoken.

SleepinGVR4
(What are we going to do today Ferb?)
09/16/11 03:55 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Well said Brox.

RedTwo
(Rangi Kiwi)
09/16/11 07:11 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Quoting DR1665:

"Q" - "I didn't come here to be abused."




Wait, that's not a question!

Thread of the year so far


DR1665
(Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips)
09/16/11 08:02 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Quoting RedTwo:


Wait, that's not a question!

Thread of the year so far





"'Q'"


alansupra94
(Excuse the retarded question.)
09/16/11 10:02 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

OP stole my part! Dirty mofo

jnava
(Senior Member)
09/16/11 10:36 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

This should be a sticky "GVR4 Manifesto"

broxma
(retard monkey strength)
09/19/11 02:17 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

I'm happy everyone enjoyed the cut of my jib on this one. More Q/A responses along the same vein are greatly appreciated. I made this post in a response to two almost identical posts regarding very basic GVR4 topics, both appeared to have their catharsis in some previous misinformation. Figured we should have some way of letting new owners know where the average current owner stands, how the forum operates, why we don't have 9 billion sub forums, who WOP is and what 1051 means to anyone, etc. So again, all the 'you who know who you are's', please put those "I wish I didn't have to answer that question for the 300th time" Q and A's here I suppose if the mods are soinclined to allow for such things.

/brox


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
09/19/11 02:44 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Q = What is the fastest color?

A = Summit White

DUH.


3O3EL0VR4
(Junior Member)
09/22/11 01:41 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

There is no other way to put it Broxma, and I couldn't agree more with you...
Great post


boostedinaz
(Fatty McButterpants)
09/30/11 11:21 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Another thing to further back my thoughts that cheap parts can be a huge gamble. I'm trying to get 1101 back on the road and do it on the the cheap. I've had to pass on using my normal factory Mitsu parts and find some cheaper alternatives. I hated doing and felt dirty putting them on the motor. Most stuff like gaskets for the valve cover or intake mani aren't a huge deal for a stock car. I've even seen succes with non OEM timing belts if used for a short time.

I bought a timing belt and tensioner from Rock Auto (this isn't their issue they just had the parts in stock for cheap) and slapped it all on. As I'm doing the brakes the other day and found some interesting stuff I started to look over car in more detail and noticed the timing belt on the crank sprocket had a lot of slack in it. Last night I pulled the timing cover (was wishing the motor was still on a stand) and found the cheap tension had colapsed after 0 miles.

Pulled it off and put a low milage used 533 tensioner on it and problem solved. When I went to compress the cheap tension in the clamp to put the pin back in there was minimal resistance. I didn't notice any leaks but it was dark and I was just trying to get the car back on the ground.

Had I started the car I would probably had 16 bents valves, more money dumped into it, and a dead project.


RalliArtist852
(Newbie)
12/14/11 03:56 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

I'm a newb to GVR4.org but I've had mine for over 7 years and several DSMs before her. I am glad to see the members of this site are so passionate about their cars, not only are they limited production, but were pivotal in the "evolution" of cars like the Lan-evo. Not to mention just great all around cars. Mine has been sitting for about 2 years after suspected oil pump seal failure. You could say I was demoralized. There ARE a couple teeth missing of the timing belt, but I didn't try to restart it once it died. Well, it's sat long enough and I've started stripping it down for a thorough cleaning. Then it will get backed into the garage while the engine gets sorted out. I don't mean to be long winded but the recent progress with my car has inspired me to join the only site that knows what they're talking about, and I'm just happy to be on board. Thanks for the support :P

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/21/12 05:00 AM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Well said, wished I had a guy like broxma close by lol good advice man. I was once told by a wise man to always build a car from the ground up. So for the most part almost all my cars have always started with suspension, brakes, tires etc first almost lol....

Epifool
(Member)
02/18/13 03:54 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

Brought home 1848/2000 (1991) today. Im'a happy, and'a grinnin, yessir! So she needs some love... what girl thats worth having doesnt? ? I love her. Before i even got her home, i got stopped by a guy in my town who had a 92mostly jus like her. Just seeing that look on his face, like he regretted trading his in on a lancer, i knew, ima keep her.

GalantJae
(Newbie)
10/22/17 09:20 PM
Re: Dear new/prospective owners

How many sensors do 6g vr4 have?


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