Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
09/15/15 03:30 PM
Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Finally got the engine in and everything hooked up. Car starts right up, revs to about 3k and then drops quickly to stall. Build is quite mild, just the usual Wiseco (9.0 pistons), Kelford 272 cams, EVO III 16G, and E-85. Fuel should be find as pressure is reading spot on (I use FIC 1100cc injectors with a re-wired walbro 255hp pump). I use link and have a wideband. I can get the car to stay running if I apply gas, both link and wideband show it funning extremely lean (off the scale on the wideband). I haven't run it for long since it's a brand new build and I don't want to break it in under these conditions. I'm thinking maybe CAS went bad, but it worked fine before the engine build up. Any other routes I should explore?

I certainly already checked for boost/vac leaks and found none.


MellowVR4
(5" too short)
09/15/15 04:27 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Possibly a bad maf.

tektic
(Senior Member)
09/15/15 04:59 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Isc not set properly or just not functioning properly.
Log tps isc step and maf to rule out these as possibilities.


prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
09/15/15 05:16 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

If your applying the throttle and it stays running, then check your TPS reading and log it to see if it's reading properly. (explains the lean condition too)

Otherwise, I agree with Tektic, your ISC isn't doing it's job otherwise, try backing out the BISS and see if that helps. If the CAS were bad completely then the ignition would not see RPM and fire at all. Chances are that's fine. Next would be the MAF.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
09/15/15 06:34 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Thanks for all the immediate responses. I'll start trouble shooting when I get some time. Is the used market the best place to find replacements if anything is found faulty, or are some of these items affordable new?

prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
09/16/15 08:11 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Used parts are fine. They are great for swapping things around to try and find the problem before spending big bucks on new stuff

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
09/16/15 02:55 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

That seems like a solid strategy. Now I just gotta find the time to start diagnosing.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/10/18 02:40 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Bringing this thread back from the dead....a couple years have passed and I haven't had time to get to the car...until now.

First thing I did was drain the old E85 that was in there. Filled the tank with some fresh 91 octane. I then set about using ECMLink to change my global settings to accommodate the 91 instead of the E85. Tested battery (had it on a tender) and it tested fine. Tested fuel pump with Link and whirs just like it should. The engine turns over but doesn't start. Before I could get it to run with throttle application, now it won't start no matter what I do. Gonna start by checking for spark. Not really thinking the MAF is bad (it's a 482) and has always functioned perfectly. Any other things to check out?


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/10/18 02:49 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Does my math check out?



Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/10/18 02:56 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Fuel is getting to the rail. Aeromotive FPR is showing normal fuel pressure after cranking the engine.

strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
01/10/18 04:40 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Injectors are clogged up and not spraying. Pull them out and send them off to be cleaned and flow tested.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/10/18 06:52 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Should have mentioned...brand new FIC 1100cc injectors.

strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
01/10/18 10:00 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Have you checked for signal at the injectors?

thomcasey
(I ain't no puny human)
01/11/18 06:24 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Are you smelling fuel? What does Link state your coolant temp is?

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/11/18 11:16 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quoting strokin4dr:

Have you checked for signal at the injectors?




Have not yet, but plan to just to make sure the injectors are functioning properly.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/11/18 11:18 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quoting thomcasey:

Are you smelling fuel? What does Link state your coolant temp is?




Not smelling fuel at all. No leaks around the injectors. I will log the coolant temp when I get a moment. Are you thinking coolant temp sensor?


thomcasey
(I ain't no puny human)
01/11/18 11:40 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

It can definitely cause a not start. if it reads -74, it will dump fuel and flood. If it reads in the high 200's or 300's, it will cut fuel.

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
01/11/18 12:07 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quoting Chad989of2000:

Should have mentioned...brand new FIC 1100cc injectors.




Are they the same new parts installed back in 2015? If so, they have sat with fuel having been run through them at some point. If different than those installed then, disregard.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/11/18 05:50 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quoting thomcasey:

It can definitely cause a not start. if it reads -74, it will dump fuel and flood. If it reads in the high 200's or 300's, it will cut fuel.




For sure, it is certainly on my list to test.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/11/18 05:53 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quoting iceman69510:

Quoting Chad989of2000:

Should have mentioned...brand new FIC 1100cc injectors.




Are they the same new parts installed back in 2015? If so, they have sat with fuel having been run through them at some point. If different than those installed then, disregard.




They are the same from back in 2015. Never had gas run through them...only E85. I've heard that ethanol can get a little gunky over time. I can certainly send them to FIC to get a cleaning and flow check and cross that off my list of possible issues.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/11/18 05:54 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Again, thank you so much for all the advice guys. Can't wait to get her up and running. It has been...way...too...long.

AllanL
(Heal and Toe)
01/11/18 08:03 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

compression test?

strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
01/11/18 08:18 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Then this is definitely one of your issues. I bet they are frozen shut! Check for signal first before pulling them though.
-Ryan

Quoting Chad989of2000:

Quoting iceman69510:

Quoting Chad989of2000:

Should have mentioned...brand new FIC 1100cc injectors.




Are they the same new parts installed back in 2015? If so, they have sat with fuel having been run through them at some point. If different than those installed then, disregard.




They are the same from back in 2015. Never had gas run through them...only E85. I've heard that ethanol can get a little gunky over time. I can certainly send them to FIC to get a cleaning and flow check and cross that off my list of possible issues.




89Mirageman
(Senior Member)
01/14/18 08:38 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

You can fab up a simple tool to clean injectors. Think it's on Jafromobiles youtube videos. While it may not be as good as the guys with professional equipment, it should at least let you know if that's your issue or not. I fabbed up one to clean the oe injectors from the 89 Raider I had a few years back and it worked perfectly.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/27/18 02:41 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Finally got a few minutes on the car today...a 1 year old and life stuff can sure get in the way.
Took the battery off the tender and threw it in. I then attempted to start it up but it wouldn't even turn over. Checked the battery and got 12.34 volts, but clearly the amperage wasn't there. So first thing on my list is a new battery.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/27/18 02:44 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Also knocked out a compression test just for shits and giggles...numbers look very solid.






Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/27/18 02:45 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Images from top to bottom in cylinder order 1 to 4.

Rrohde84
(Newbie)
01/30/18 10:58 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

something that you can try is spraying a little starting fluid or carb cleaner through a vacuum line while someone start the car to see if it fires off. at least you will know if it is a fuel issue or not. I did this when my car was acting the same way. once I sprayed the cleaner through a vacuum line it fired off and I knew I had a fuel issue. just a suggestion

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
01/31/18 12:56 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

I will try to get her going with the new battery, but yeah that starter fluid trick is a good one. I will definitely try that if it still won't turn over.

Injectors were getting signal just fine. If the new battery does not start it up, I will be getting the injectors cleaned and flow tested.


FlyingEagle
(Eager Beaver)
02/10/18 10:52 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

For sure the injectors do not like sitting/being used with high ethanol content, and then being stationary for lengthy periods of time.
Let us know how it goes after the injectors are given a clean bill of health. wink wink


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
03/04/18 09:43 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install





Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
03/04/18 09:46 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

The photos speak volumes about just how gunked up the injectors were.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
03/04/18 09:48 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Also when I pulled the rail up, the tops of the injectors stayed attached. Is this okay? They seem to be stuck to the rail really well.



strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
03/07/18 08:39 AM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

I called that one

As far as sticking in the rail, I've had lots of injectors do that. Some to the point where the oring is destroyed removing them.
I would send those back to FIC for cleaning. Hopefully they can be saved. Ethanol can potentially do some damage.

It sucks, but glad it was something simple. You should be up and running in no time. Since you see the condition of the injectors and rail, I would open up the rest of the fuel system and clean everything thoroughly before trying to start it again. Inside of tank condition and fuel pump would be my biggest concern.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
03/07/18 02:56 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Haha for sure. I will also be replacing the fuel filter (FuelLab unit) to be safe. Pulling pump and rail for inspection too. I drained the tank completely and re-filled with clean gas. Off to FIC to clean and will report their findings. Thanks again all.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
03/10/18 12:30 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Quite probably replacing some fuel system components. Any tips for cleaning this gunk out...brake cleaner?



strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
03/10/18 09:43 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

I would not use that rail. Hell, I wouldn't run bare aluminum fuel components with E85, period. After noticing my factory rail starting to have flakes inside after running E85 for just months I swapped to a FIC rail, new soft lines, inline filter setup and E85 safe fuel pump.
I'd check out all of those things and consider replacement is any piece is suspect and especially if you plan to keep running ethanol.

-Ryan


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
04/01/18 11:49 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Replaced fuel filter, cleaned fuel rail with rifle cleaning kit, cleaned out Aeromotive AFPR, pulled pump it looked good, had all injectors cleaned and flow tested by FIC. Car fires up and will run if I give some throttle...it surges and then stalls if I don't.

Unfortunately it is now leaking from both ends of the fuel rail. Everything is tightened to spec and it never leaked before. What could be causing this?


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
04/02/18 12:16 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Going to take it apart again...might be the two rubber o-rings on the fitting sections inside the actual rail. So fun. Anyone know the size of these o-rings (stock) off the top of their heads or where to source?

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
04/02/18 02:53 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

CAPS info:

Inlet: MB554317 says 11.8 size

Outlet: MD604696 says 7.8 size

Maybe that represents the inside diameter measurement? I remember going to the hardware store with mine and finding an equivalent that worked. I seem to remember it was a little bit thicker cross-section diameter. Don't remember the size, though 11 mm is close to 7/16ths.


Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
04/02/18 05:44 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Awesome, thanks for the info. It will be a nice day when I'm not pissing fuel out everywhere.

Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
04/08/18 04:02 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

I'm done with this stock fuel rail...



Chad989of2000
(blows both ways and is skilled in magic with any mention of diarrhea)
04/08/18 04:05 PM
Re: Car Starts but Stalls Immediately after Built Engine Install

Had to mangle to fittings to get them off the rail. Both rubber o-rings were in rough shape, especially the inlet side (looks almost melted). I was going to just order new -6an fittings and call it a day, but I said screw it and opted for the FIC fuel rail. Reviews look good, and my stock rail has been through hell. Fun.


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